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6 man rotation

what should the Mets do with the rotation?
send Seo to bullpen/minors 0 votes
send Glavine to bullpen 0 votes
send Zambrano to the bullpen 4 votes
send Traschel to the bullpen 10 votes
send Benson to the bullpen 1 votes
use a 6-man rotation 12 votes
send Martinez to the bullpen (ie click this if you are brain dead or a Yankee fan) 0 votes
another option (post your idea please) 1 votes

Nymr83
Aug 14 2005 01:32 AM

assume the following are facts:

1) Pedro must be in the rotation due to performance & contract size.
2) Benson must be in the rotation due to performance & contract size.
3) Zambrano must be in the rotation due to performance & kazmir.
4) Glavine must be in the rotation due to contract size.
5) Seo has earned a rotation spot, taking him out would be detrimental to the Mets ability to win ball games.
6) Traschel is ready and better than at least 1 guy in the rotation now.

now if 4 wasn't true we'd have a simple solution, but given the way finances and lineups are intertwined it is.
The argument against a 6-man rotation is essentially that your good pitchers pitch less often... but if our 2-6 are essentially equal, and if pedro wants to only pitch every 6th day anyway, what is the downside to going 6-man? off days will give certain guys even more rest than usual, which can be rectified by skipping each of the guys not named pedro once the rest of the way (it works, i looked.)
so is anyone against the 6-man idea? comments/reasons?

Edgy DC
Aug 14 2005 05:48 AM

I threw Trachs in the bullpen for now.

Coming back from surgery and jumping into a stretch-run rotation is a tough row to hoe. Since there's no immediate need for him, why ask it of him?

Let him replace Graves or, if they're unwilling to remove Graves, Santiago.

Rotblatt
Aug 14 2005 06:43 AM

Modified 6-man rotation for me. Via Gary, Petey's on track for his most innings in a couple years and he looks like he could use a couple of days off. We have a stretch of 13 straight games coming up--why not go with a six-man there? Work Petey next Sunday, then the following Saturday, then go from there.

Petey, Benson, Glavine, Zambrano, Trachsel, Seo is how the rotation is currently on track--that would push Seo's scheduled start back one day.

After August 29th (our next off-day), we start Pedro every sixth day, without fail, and work the rotation around him, skipping one of the other starters as needed. We only have two days off in September, though, so I think we'd only skip two guys throughout that month--preferably Zambrano or Glavine, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if we used Seo in the pen for those two starts.

ScarletKnight41
Aug 14 2005 06:57 AM

I agree with Edgy - start Trax in the pen while he gets back up to speed.

seawolf17
Aug 14 2005 07:50 AM

I guess I'd vote that too. It's not like we're bringing back Bob Feller here; while everyone else seems to be pitching well, ride them. Maybe we can dump Graves on the MFYs.

TheOldMole
Aug 14 2005 08:36 AM

I went for the 6. It's the time of year when pitchers are getting tired.

smg58
Aug 14 2005 11:11 AM

It would be a crime against humanity to demote Seo at this point. I think Zambrano would make the most sense as a reliever, but six starters has some viability. It would give everybody two starts (over the 13-game stretch) to establish their place in the pecking order. And anything that hurts Glavine's chances of reaching 200 IP helps the team in the long run.

ScarletKnight41
Aug 14 2005 12:02 PM

]And anything that hurts Glavine's chances of reaching 200 IP helps the team in the long run.


Good point.

Elster88
Aug 14 2005 01:14 PM

]ie click this if you are brain dead or a Yankee fan


LOL

Elster88
Aug 14 2005 01:15 PM

Rotblatt wrote:
Modified 6-man rotation for me. Via Gary, Petey's on track for his most innings in a couple years and he looks like he could use a couple of days off. We have a stretch of 13 straight games coming up--why not go with a six-man there? Work Petey next Sunday, then the following Saturday, then go from there.


I really like this. Save Pedro's arm for next year.

Valadius
Aug 14 2005 01:50 PM

Screw the whole "We gotta have Zambrano in the rotation because of Kazmir" thing. Nobody has to prove anything to anybody. That's like throwing Kaz Matsui out there every day to "prove" that he deserves his contract. Or what we did with Mo Vaughn. Of course, Victor's been all right, but still, it's the same principle, and it ultimately hurts a team.

Edgy DC
Aug 14 2005 01:54 PM

I'm not familiar with the whole "We gotta have Zambrano in the rotation because of Kazmir" thing. Whose thing is that?

ScarletKnight41
Aug 14 2005 01:57 PM

Zambrano has been better than expected this season.

Elster88
Aug 15 2005 07:20 AM

Valadius wrote:
Screw the whole "We gotta have Zambrano in the rotation because of Kazmir" thing. Nobody has to prove anything to anybody. That's like throwing Kaz Matsui out there every day to "prove" that he deserves his contract. Or what we did with Mo Vaughn. Of course, Victor's been all right, but still, it's the same principle, and it ultimately hurts a team.
'

We gotta have Zambrano in the rotation because he's been at least the third best pitcher on the team this year.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 15 2005 07:57 AM

I suppose I'd want to know how the starters would feel about it. My guess is that most of them prolly won't want their routines messed around with too much. At any rate, Traxxxx represents a nice upgrade over Santiago or Graves.

Bobby Vee's 6-man earned a lot of criticism when he tried it but as I recall, it didn;t hurt (or help much).

I don't know.

Ask someone else.

seawolf17
Aug 15 2005 08:21 AM

We're not asking someone else, JD. We're asking you. And you had better make a decision, because Trax is ready to pitch. Good thing you have an off day today.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 15 2005 09:33 AM

I don't have the information necessary to make this decision.

But I'd like to see what Trachsel's got so I'd give him a start when the opportunity presents itself. Pedro often likes the extra day off so I'm sure he won't mind, and after 1 turn through 6; I'd re-evaluate and work the phones.

seawolf17
Aug 15 2005 09:43 AM

August 14, 2005 -- Kazuhisa Ishii (0-1) took the loss for Norfolk, although he pitched exceptionally well. The only blemish on Ishii's line was a home run by Ray Sadler on the third pitch of the game. Ishii went 6.0 innings, scattering seven hits and walking two. He also struck out nine.

Bring him back! Seven-man rotation!

Rotblatt
Aug 15 2005 09:54 AM

="Elster88"]We gotta have Zambrano in the rotation because he's been at least the third best pitcher on the team this year.


Yes, well, being better than Ishii & Glavine isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. Seo & Heilman have been better than Zambrano, and I fully expect Trachs to be better than him as well.

Now that Ishii's mercifully out of the equation, Zambrano's maybe our fourth-best pitcher, and that's debateable. Going by ERA, Glavine's outpitched Zambrano by a mile over the last two months.

July & August
Zambrano: 4.68 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, 4.5 K/9, 2.88 BB/9, 1.56 K/BB, 0.9 HR/9
Glavine: 3.48 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 3.13 K/9, 1.91 BB/9, 1.63 K/BB, 0.52 HR/9

Going by their other peripherals, Glavine's been more successful because he's done a better job limiting home runs & walks, but both of them have some serious problems--most notably their K rates.

That being said, they're both fine #4 men, and might very well be able to put up league average pitching for us over the rest of the season.

Nymr83
Aug 15 2005 04:43 PM

I didn't expect such strong anti-Traschel feeling. I want him in there somehow for the stretch run....who voted Benson? hmm...

ScarletKnight41
Aug 15 2005 04:44 PM

Who said that putting Trax in the pen as he's coming off of the DL is anti-Trax feeling?

TheOldMole
Aug 15 2005 05:00 PM

Another option would be work out a waiver trade.

Edgy DC
Aug 15 2005 07:03 PM

]Yes, well, being better than Ishii & Glavine isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.


He's been even better than that.

Frayed Knot
Aug 16 2005 04:42 PM

Trax to make one more rehab start on Thursday, thus delaying any decisions on this topic for at least another week.

OlerudOwned
Aug 17 2005 11:27 AM

]
"It's just a matter of, right now, our rotation's pretty set," Mets manager Willie Randolph said. "Jae Seo's been throwing the ball well and we're not going to go to a six-man rotation. The math is easy."

Vic Sage
Aug 17 2005 12:28 PM

WWSB ruled out a 6-man rotation (with no explanation) and he and Trax agree he wouldn't be useful working out of the pen ("it takes me 30 minutes to warm up", he said). Since they can't leave him down there indefinitely, somebody's got to go.

i think they're waiting for Seo to have a mediocre-or-less start, so they can send him down without guilt.

metirish
Aug 17 2005 12:37 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 17 2005 12:48 PM

Trax will have his next rehab start Thursday which is the absolute last day he can stay in AAA, so Ted said during the game last night.

Rotblatt
Aug 17 2005 12:44 PM

Why not send down Zambrano or move HIM to the pen? He's had the worst August so far, and he'd probably be better than Graves. I'd send Santiago back down without any hesitation too.

And since I haven't said it in a while: why isn't Bell back up yet? In his 22.2 IP at Norfolk, he's got a 1.39 ERA, 0.71 WHIP, has K'ed 28, walked only 3, and given up only 4 R and only 1 HR.

That's just sick. He's been good enough to earn the right to work on his changeup in the bigs.

And Jesus, he was pretty good for us too: 4.35 ERA, 1.42 WHIP, 8.24 K/9, 2.52 BB/9 & 0.68 HR/9.

Elster88
Aug 17 2005 12:47 PM

If Glavine really did clear waivers, lets trade the guy for a middling prospect. Helps out next year's payroll.

MrMet420
Aug 17 2005 12:48 PM

Why not use the 6-Man Rotation...... but using Seo and Zambrano in spot starts on the given5th day, to which line-up they have the edge over. Gives more flexibility to assigning starts, gives the rotation an extra day off.

Elster88
Aug 19 2005 08:00 PM

I'd say Seo has earned another start.

Do you say so?

Valadius
Aug 19 2005 08:05 PM

I'd say he's earned himself a spot in the rotation. With regards to Bell, I want Mr. Koo and Danny Graves off this team NOW.

Zvon
Aug 19 2005 08:14 PM

Trachsel has already said he doesnt feel he can help the Mets from the pen. Says he isnt experienced in that aspect of pitching enuff.

So you cant take him out of his element if he's negative about it.

You have to stick with Seo as long as he keeps it up, and even allow him some breathing room to pitch an average game, or even take a loss. I doubt he can win em all.

I was thinkin Glavine should go, but the more i think about it, it has to be Zambrano to the pen.
Glavine has been much more consistant last 8 or so games out there, and nothing is gonna shake his demeaner. If he's got it to pitch, we'll get the quality start.

This opinion could change (ThkG im just a fan), cuz it just has since yesterday, but i think Zambrano goes to the pen. Ishii, when he's got his concentration level up, can pitch a fine few innings, so even keep him up and in the pen. Id have to take a look at the roster to see how to juggle it, but the pen will be crucial and it must be shored up.

Frayed Knot
Aug 19 2005 08:59 PM

I think that about the time Sept 1st rolls around we're going to have about a 15 man pen.

Zvon
Aug 20 2005 04:13 AM

Frayed Knot wrote:
I think that about the time Sept 1st rolls around we're going to have about a 15 man pen.


lmao :lol:

wish we could. :wink:

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 20 2005 07:32 AM

This morning's Daily Snooze:

]Teammates found it curious, however, that Zambrano (2-3, 5.85 ERA since the All-Star break) jumped ahead of Seo on the last road trip, putting Zambrano on the identical schedule to Trachsel. One veteran suggested a Trachsel-for-Zambrano rotation swap would be applauded in the clubhouse, if only the Mets would accept whatever barbs come their way for giving up Scott Kazmir in the unpopular July 2004 trade with the Devil Rays. One Mets official said the team planned to stick with a five-man rotation.

If Trachsel can't be dealt, a modified six-man rotation - in which Trachsel and Zambrano could be strategically slotted around other starters' schedules - also would seem to make sense, especially considering the Mets (62-59) have only one off-day in the next three weeks and Martinez typically benefits from an extra day of rest.

GYC
Aug 20 2005 10:42 AM

I didn't like Zambrano when we traded him, I didn't like him in the offseason, I didn't like him when he was doing bad, I still didn't like him when he was doing good and didn't trust him and waiting for him to explode. Send him to the BP or another team.

Zvon
Aug 20 2005 12:30 PM

]a modified six-man rotation - in which Trachsel and Zambrano could be strategically slotted around other starters' schedules - also would seem to make sense, especially considering the Mets (62-59) have only one off-day in the next three weeks


this is interesting info. Only one off day during this run?
Yikes.
Ill be very surprised if they go to set a 6 man rotation.
But a flexible one, thats an entertaining concept.

You have to keep in mind that a starting pitcher should throw every 5th day or so to stay effective. But they could have sideline throwing fill that gap if they juggle Tashy and Zambi.

Its a novel idea, and a lil scary to try.
For the next 3 weeks, it could just work.
Theres got to be a way to take full advantage of the cards we are holding.

For me it comes back to Trachsels arm is fresh and he always goes deep into games.

Nymr83
Aug 20 2005 12:46 PM

if Traschel wasn't exaggerating when he said it takes him 30 minutes to warm up i think the bullpen has to be out of the question.

Zvon
Aug 20 2005 12:57 PM

Nymr83 wrote:
if Traschel wasn't exaggerating when he said it takes him 30 minutes to warm up i think the bullpen has to be out of the question.


What I get from what Trachsel is saying is that he's a starter, he intends to be a starter, and wouldnt be happy in any other role.

I suppose a manager has to take this into consideration these days.

Zvon
Aug 20 2005 01:00 PM

hey!
im stretchin the place out.

Im sure theres a note somewhere here as to why this has happened,lol.

Zvon
Aug 20 2005 01:02 PM

I dont get to keep the framed Seaver pic?
*Sob*
what a rip. :cry:

ScarletKnight41
Aug 20 2005 01:03 PM

It's that you just hit the 41st post, otherwise known as the Sacred Seaver Post.

It was a bigger thing on the old board, when the post number for each post was a permanent thing (your 41st post would always be recognized as your 41st post), but when people notice a SSP here it still gets hailed.

We also had fun on the old board with post 666, known as the Jay Satan Post.

Edgy DC
Aug 20 2005 01:06 PM

A belated HAIL!

Zvon
Aug 20 2005 01:07 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote:
It's that you just hit the 41st post, otherwise known as the Sacred Seaver Post.


hahaha.
I love it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have 3 brothers who are huge Met fans too.
Ive got to tell them about this place.

ScarletKnight41
Aug 20 2005 01:18 PM

Bring 'em along. We've got plenty of space here.

Elster88
Aug 20 2005 07:20 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 23 2005 01:56 PM

GYC wrote:
I didn't like Zambrano when we traded him, I didn't like him in the offseason, I didn't like him when he was doing bad, I still didn't like him when he was doing good and didn't trust him and waiting for him to explode. Send him to the BP or another team.


Good to see you're open minded.

Elster88
Aug 23 2005 01:54 PM
Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Aug 26 2005 07:26 AM



ERA is cumulative for the whole year, up until the total, which is only the post-ASB cumulative ERA.

WHIP is each game's total WHIP, up until the total which is post-ASB WHIP.

TOM GLAVINEPOST-ASBWLERAGGSCGSHOSVSVOIPHRERHRBBKWHIP
7/15ATL004.7111000076110422.00
7/20SD104.6211000066220131.17
7/25@COL014.6911000068540121.50
7/30@HOU014.5011000075111030.71
8/5CHI104.50110000810542021.25
8/11@SD014.4111000079220031.23
8/17PIT104.2611000079111121.43
8/22@ARI104.1011000085110150.75
432.578800005658181648221.18

ABG
Aug 23 2005 04:24 PM

I'm fully behind the six man concept. After Pedro and Benson, the four guys in question are interchangeable IMHO.

Give Pedro the rest--the guy hasn't hit 85 on the gun in a month.

Elster88
Aug 24 2005 07:09 AM



ERA is cumulative for the whole year, up until the total, which is only the post-ASB cumulative ERA.

WHIP is each game's total WHIP, up until the total which is post-ASB WHIP.

VICTOR ZAMBRANOPOST-ASBWLERAGGSCGSHOSVSVOIPHRERHRBBKWHIP
7/16ATL013.5111000076220461.43
7/22LAN013.861100004.210661012.38
7/27@COL103.7811000075220351.14
8/2MIL004.191100001.17664026.36
8/7CHN104.0011000085110210.88
8/12@LAN004.1611000066550451.67
8/18PIT014.2411000066441131.17
8/23@ARI104.0711000086110231.00
335.0688000048512727616261.40

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 24 2005 08:08 AM

Toss out his worst outing and that ERA drops by more than a run, to 4.04

Elster88
Aug 24 2005 10:19 AM

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sports/baseball/24pitch.html[/url]
You need an NY Times online account to access this, but they are free. I can post the whole article if someone wants, but this is the part I found quotable.

]In fact, with the return of the right-hander Steve Trachsel from the disabled list, the Mets have so much pitching that they have reconfigured the rotation to include Trachsel, who is scheduled to start Friday night in San Francisco, bumping the scheduled starter, Benson, to Sunday.

As for Zambrano, who started Tuesday and was scheduled to pitch Sunday, Manager Willie Randolph indicated that the Mets would not use a six-man rotation. So by the time the team returns to Shea Stadium next Tuesday to begin a three-game series against Philadelphia, the Mets will have decided on a five-man staff.

For the moment, it looks as if Zambrano is the odd man out. Randolph said before Tuesday's game that he wanted to wait and see how Zambrano pitched before guaranteeing him another chance. This was nothing new. Last week Randolph did not give Zambrano a hearty endorsement but said that Zambrano would still pitch Tuesday. "We'll see what happens," Randolph said.

HahnSolo
Aug 24 2005 02:00 PM

That's probably the best decision for Willie at this point. It's crazy to commit to Trachsel for the rest of the season and take Zambrano from the rotation until they see something out of Trax at this level.
So if Trachsel has a good start, it's bad times for Zambrano.

Rotblatt
Aug 24 2005 02:30 PM

Zambrano started his MLB career as a reliever--and did quite well there. Then he started to suck.

Relief Innings & Relief Stats by Year

2001
51.1 IP, 3.16 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 58 K, 18 BB, 6 HR

2002
49.2 IP, 7.21 ERA, 1.71 WHIP, 31 K, 35 BB, 8 HR

2003
10.2 IP, 3.72 ERA, 1.31 WHIP, 4 K, 4 BB, 1 HR

2004
1 IP, 0 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 1 K, 1 BB

Total
4.96 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 7.64 K/9, 1.62 K/BB, 1.22 HR/9

If he reproduced that line, he'd be a decent long man, but I'd expect fewer strikeouts and probably fewer runs given up now.

My main point is that Victor's relieved in the recent past and at one time was pretty effective in that spot. He DOES have filthy stuff, so why not try him out? If his problem is staying focused, won't having to stay focused for only an inning or two be easier on him?

The only problem is that he gets creamed in his first 15 pitches to the tune of a .926 OPS, compared to a .722 overall. But maybe that's a fluke or Rick can help him out . . .

Anyway, if Trachs is healthy and can be as effective as usual, I'd rather see him starting over Zambrano. Petey, Benson & Seo are untouchable, IMO, and Glavine would probably be more useless than Trachs out of the pen.

I still favor a more permanent 6-man rotation, but if one has to go to the pen, I think it should be Victor.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 24 2005 02:43 PM

I think Z could go to the bullpen but things could turn ugly the moment he's ineffective there and that should concern the Mets only because they can control VZ cheaply for longer than they're committed to Traschel.

I think a trade of Trachsel is a strong possibility. How about to the Giants for Ray Durham & a prospect?

Rotblatt
Aug 24 2005 02:55 PM

Here's a radical idea: platoon Trachs & Zambrano based on if we're home or away. The other could be used out of the pen. As a flyball pitcher, Trachs does much better at Shea (3.06 ERA in 04, 3.97 in 03, 3.31 in 02 & 4.00 in 01). 2003 is the only year his Home ERA was worse than his Away ERA.

As for Zambrano, for whatever reason, he's sucked at Shea this year--4.97 ERA, 1.53 WHIP & SEVEN of his 11 homers came there. Away: 3.23 ERA, 1.31 WHIP.

It's wacky and likely would throw both of them off their games, but I suppose stranger things have happened. . .

seawolf17
Aug 24 2005 03:14 PM

You need to get over this Ray Durham obsession. The guy's going to be 34 years old in December, can't run any more, hasn't played a full season since 2001 with the White Sox, and makes over $7 million.

No thanks.

Willets Point
Aug 24 2005 03:15 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote:
How about to the Giants for Ray Durham & a prospect?


Tenacity of a pitbull has this one.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 24 2005 03:34 PM

He's the anti-Cairo!

seawolf17
Aug 24 2005 03:37 PM

Hey, nobody around here is pro-Cairo... we're all anti-Cairo.

Elster88
Aug 25 2005 07:29 AM



ERA is cumulative for the whole year.

WHIP is each game's total WHIP, up until the total which is cumulative WHIP.

JAE SEOGAMEWLERAGGSCGSHOSVSVOIPHRERHRBBKWHIP
4/23WAS101.5011000066110041.00
4/29@WAS013.2711000053333120.80
5/4PHI102.0011000071000280.43
8/6CHN101.421100007.14000140.70
8/13@LAN101.3511000085110160.75
8/19WAS101.0911000084000250.75
8/24@ARI101.3011000077220021.00
611.3077000048.1307737310.77

Elster88
Aug 25 2005 09:56 AM

New York Post:
]Not that it's necessarily going to happen, but Victor Zambrano, who pitched well on Tuesday night, said he would be OK if the Mets took him out of the rotation. Said Zambrano, "I'm ready to do what I can do to help the team." He said he would have "no problem" pitching out of the bullpen.

Elster88
Aug 26 2005 07:16 AM
Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Aug 26 2005 07:28 AM



ERA is cumulative for the whole year, up until the total, which is only the post-ASB cumulative ERA.

WHIP is each game's total WHIP, up until the total which is post-ASB WHIP.

PEDRO MARTINEZPOST-ASBWLERAGGSCGSHOSVSVOIPHRERHRBBKWHIP
7/17ATL102.6011000062000050.33
7/23LAD102.7911000078551241.43
7/28@HOU002.7611000084221380.88
8/3MIL002.8111000078331281.43
8/9@SD013.0011000059552041.80
8/14@LAD012.9611100082221150.38
8/20WAS002.8611000066000041.00
8/25@ARI102.7711000062000461.00
322.8988100053.0411717612441.10

ABG
Aug 26 2005 07:23 AM

Just want to state for the record my opinion that, even though it worked out fine, Willie should've pitched Trax last night and Pedro tonight. We should really be looking for ways to get Pedro more rest here and there, and this was an opportunity missed IMO.

Frayed Knot
Aug 26 2005 07:30 AM

Supposedly that was discussed but Pedro - who only threw 70-some
pitches last time out - asked specifically to stay on his regular turn.

seawolf17
Aug 27 2005 06:18 AM

By the way... 6 2/3 from Glavine today and the $8 million option vests for '06. Root for six and out, people!

smg58
Aug 27 2005 07:58 AM

I think we have to accept that he's sticking around. He's logging enough innings to suggest that he'll get the 200 IP and the full contract. At least he's been pitching well lately. So he stays and keeps a seat warm for Petit. Not my first choice, but if he earns it with a strong finish I'll live with it.

That still leaves one unset spot in next year's rotation, the way I see it. Do you try to deal Zambrano? (Do you try to do it before Sept. 1?) Do you pick up Trachsel's option, or buy him out? Do you make room for either Heilman or Bannister? Do you try to outbid people for Burnett?

Edgy DC
Aug 27 2005 08:41 AM

I think any deal the Mets make will have the primary purpose of helping the team this year. Taking advantage of the redundancy in the starting rotation to help the seeming shortcoming in the pen seems obvious.

But it's not a situation that has to be solved by a trade.

Great tabling.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 27 2005 08:59 AM

I'm afraid Benson is hurt.

He was killed in his last start, so much so that Gary & Howie thought he was tipping pitches but that never came up afterward. The last time Benson was so beaten up, he was put on the DL with a bad shoulder.

The subsequent response -- to give him an extra TWO days on top of the short outing, suggests something isn't right.

Marty Noble reported the other day that "sources" said Benson's shoulder was bad, denied by the Mets... then comes news today he was "sluggish" in a bullpen session.

No moves made to address the 6-man rotation as yet.

Elster88
Aug 27 2005 11:07 AM



STEVE TRACHSELGAMEWLERAGGSCGSHOSVSVOIPHRERHRBBKWHIP
AUG 26@SF100.0011000082000260.50

smg58
Aug 27 2005 10:01 PM

Obviously if there's any doubt about Benson, dealing now is no option. Funny how six starters can seem like not enough sometimes.

Gwreck
Aug 28 2005 01:11 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote:
No moves made to address the 6-man rotation as yet.


On the WFAN broadcast, Gary and Howie said that they expect Seo-Pedro-Glavine in the Phillies series, and then quite possibly Zambrano as the starter in the first game against the Marlins (due to his past successes against the Marlins).

So I guess this means the 6 man rotation is still alive? Presumably Trachsel and Benson would finish up the series against the Marlins -- only other choice would be to start Seo again for the final game.

PiazzaFan411
Aug 28 2005 10:30 AM

I think the six man rotation is great. They'll be able to get some more wins for different style teams.

Bret Sabermetric
Aug 28 2005 10:48 AM

You must be mistaken. We were told that Randolph doesn't favor the 6-man rotation, so we can bet the farm that that's an option that's not happening. The Mets will make a firm decision and that decision will be what they'll do.

Frayed Knot
Aug 28 2005 01:53 PM

The announced rotation for the Philly series is: Seo -- Pedro -- Glavine


Those first two are 'on turn' but Zambrano gets pushed back for a still to be determined amount of time, plus Trax gets at least one extra day of rest following his first official start of the year.

Zvon
Aug 28 2005 02:36 PM

uh-oh.
I dont like that. Trash goin to the pen.
He always gives ya 6 win or lose. Usually keep you in the game.........
This cant be about the Zambrano/Kasmir thing.
Kazmir hasnt pitched well enuff that we should regret that trade.

No sir, i dont like that move at all.

Bret Sabermetric
Aug 28 2005 02:37 PM

This is where I question the Mets' testicularity (or their scouting acumen). If trax is pitching well in rehab games, swap a friggen starter, and hope Trax continues pitching well. Fill in a hole--it's not as if this team doesn;t have any, for chrissake!

They love to play it safe, to have all of their decisiojns made ofr them, which is a luxury they can't afford, the way this team is put together. They're managing their roster like they were the 1927 Yankees, but they're playing like the 1992 Yankees.

Elster88
Aug 28 2005 02:38 PM

Zvon wrote:
Trash goin to the pen.


Where did you hear this?

OlerudOwned
Aug 28 2005 02:44 PM

Joel Sherman of the Post suggested the Mets take Seo out of the rotation and use him as a 2 inning closer, 3 times a week. At that point, I proceeded to set fire to my copy of the Post.


EDIT: I was typing without my brain, piss poor typing.

Edgy DC
Aug 29 2005 10:07 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 29 2005 10:15 AM

There's something to that though. But the problem is... why Seo? Why not Zambrano or Benson or Glavine? The answer stinks, but it's that they have more leverage to bitch about it.

I'm a little crazy oldskool, but if I ran the world, or a baseball team, I'd be routinely rotationg guys in and out of the rotation any time they had a few bad starts. Billy Martin, apart from abusing the Hell out of young arms in Oakland, as Yankee manager, used to give Ron Guidry a week or two in the bullpen if he hit a few bumps in an otherwise successful season. (Maybe it was Howser, or Lemon. Who knew with those teams.) Back in the day, it also wasn't out of the question for a manager to deal with a slump by a top reliever by giving him a start or two.

The conventions of modern times have made it more difficult for a guy to pitch his way into the rotation. Firstly, once upon a time, if a guy stepped into a spot with a great start (as has happened three times for the Mets this season), the team would say "great" and make sure they start him again in that double-header in Montreal next week. Nowadays, that double-header rarely comes, so a team has only that one start to decide if the player really turned a corner or merely caught lightning in a bottle.

Secondly, the contracts and leverage that the modern player has put him in a positiion to make a nuisance of himself if he gets assigned to an unfamiliar spot. As much as I feel for Trachsel's situation (and pretty much think he should get a crack at Zambrano's spot), his agent should not really be involved in the conversation.

On Planet Edgy, there'd be double-headers every Sunday.

Bret Sabermetric
Aug 29 2005 10:13 AM

Where I do sign up for the spaceship to planet Edgy?

Rotblatt
Aug 29 2005 10:27 AM

On Planet Edgy, there must not be a baseball union . . .

Can you give Sal & me a two-for-one deal?

Elster88
Aug 29 2005 01:05 PM

Catching up on Benson. I'll be periodically updating all the posts already posted for an ongoing look at how everyone's doing.


ERA is cumulative for the whole year, up until the total which post-ASB ERA.

WHIP is each game's total WHIP, up until the total which is post-ASB WHIP.

KRIS BENSONPOST-ASBWLERAGGSCGSHOSVSVOIPHRERHRBBKWHIP
7/14ATL003.5711000075321070.71
7/19SD003.4011000075111241.00
7/24LA103.1411000084000150.63
7/29@HOU013.401100005.16553361.76
8/4MIL003.72110000511660222.60
8/10@SD103.541100008.13110160.49
8/16PIT103.4911000077220231.29
8/21WAS013.891100000.286600040.0
8/28@SF013.9111000067332221.50
334.3199000054.1562726713351.28


_____________________________
This post was made under the posting designation 170) Barry Lyons

seawolf17
Aug 29 2005 02:03 PM

This is great work, Elster. Create a table for a man, you get one nice table. Teach a man to use HTML, and he'll feed us for a season.

Edgy DC
Aug 29 2005 02:08 PM

Know what I love? The man is vigilent about using that cellpadding="0" tag.

Elster88
Aug 29 2005 02:16 PM

Cut and paste all day. I forget who taught me the Excel trick (Yancy?), but thanks to Edgy for the formatting tags.

_____________________________
This post was made under the posting designation 170) Barry Lyons

ABG
Aug 29 2005 03:38 PM

Sounds like the rumor mill is starting to churn--Details on metsblog.com

Something about the Sox (natch) and Millar or Olerud/RP

Elster88
Sep 01 2005 02:35 PM

]Glavine (10-12) had lost to the Giants, 2-1, in San Francisco on Saturday, and now has lost 2-1, 2-0, 2-1, 2-1 and 3-1 in his last 10 starts. He has allowed eight runs in those five losses.

_____________________________
This post was made under the designation 166) Pete Schourek