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Mike Cameron's Hustle (formerly: A*h**s on the Internet)

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 12 2005 08:55 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 14 2005 09:12 PM

[url]http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904[/url]

"To say outfielder Mike Cameron is mailing it in is an insult to postal workers everywhere."

Hey asshole. He almost killed himself playing for the Mets yesterday.

This guy is disgraceful.

cooby
Aug 12 2005 09:03 PM




Well, just look at him...

Edgy DC
Aug 12 2005 09:09 PM

Are you registered to respond to that crap?

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 12 2005 09:10 PM

No sir.

cooby
Aug 12 2005 09:11 PM

You can email him

mike@gothambaseball.com


I know it's an address I'll treasure

Frayed Knot
Aug 12 2005 09:14 PM

Well fortunately we've got Moises Alou to fill in for Cammy since this same site "broke" the news of the 2-year Met contract he signed this past Spring.

DocTee
Aug 12 2005 09:17 PM

I believe that article was written and posted before the brutal collision...

Edgy DC
Aug 12 2005 09:21 PM

I believe it was lying nonsense before that also.

DocTee
Aug 12 2005 09:27 PM

so do I, butut nobody complained about it until after Cammy "almost died for the mets" yesterday

Nymr83
Aug 12 2005 09:30 PM

]I believe it was lying nonsense before that also.


yes, but before cameron got hurt this was only th guy's opinion and not "disgraceful" as the poster said

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 12 2005 09:32 PM

done.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 12 2005 09:44 PM

only th guy's opinion and not "disgraceful" as the poster said

Oh bullshit. Can we please stop pretending we live in a world where every hack can defend any and all thoughts no matter how inappropriate, unfounded and undefensible because "it was only my opinion"?

And you're right -- this awful writer with his bad cliches and pretend press credentials would probably have saved himself my wrath if the object of his unfounded derision hadn't tragically proven him any wronger yesterday. So what?

Nymr83
Aug 12 2005 09:59 PM

so what? so i find it objectionable when people voice an opinion only when circumstances make them right, but keep their mouth shut when they don't.
lets not call that guy's negative opinion disgraceful because you dont agree with it...call it wrong if you want, but i dont see how its disgraceful.

metirish
Aug 12 2005 10:01 PM

IMO this article is a bit of rubbish regardless of when this wanker wrote it, if he wrote it before last night then how can he say that the Mets are done?, 3 or 4 games out in the WC is not done, are the Mets going to win the WC, probably not but they have a shot and that's not done. Plus to say Cameron is mailing it in is bullshit.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 12 2005 10:18 PM

so i find it objectionable when people voice an opinion only when circumstances make them right, but keep their mouth shut when they don't. lets not call that guy's negative opinion disgraceful because you dont agree with it...call it wrong if you want, but i dont see how its disgraceful.

How about when people presume to know when you've kept your mouth shut? Is that objectionable?

Edgy DC
Aug 12 2005 10:49 PM

It's not like I don't object to similar garbage whenever it comes across this forum.

SI Metman
Aug 12 2005 11:12 PM

I actually met Mr. McGann this spring at a B-Mets game. Nice fellow, but I disagree with most of his views on this franchise.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 12 2005 11:29 PM

I'm especailly hot over this, obviously, but it's not as if this is the first time these clowns have embarrassed themselves and saddened me.

The sheer ugliness and aggressive antintellectualism with which fans have consumed this Met season has been a theme all year long, a sweetspot for hacks like McGann and has not escaped discussion here.

KC
Aug 13 2005 05:54 AM

I don't know if disgraceful is the word I'd use. Dude has a soap box set up
on a small corner of cyber-space and shouts regurgitated-nothing-new-to-
see-here stuff and I just find that I can barely paulie my way two-thirds
through it without moving on. Perhaps if I was a writer, witch I is obveously
not, I might find some of it disgraceful. But the Joe Mets' fan in me doesn't.

cooby
Aug 13 2005 07:39 AM

This is why I don't read blogs

Mark Healey
Aug 13 2005 09:44 AM
Re: Assholes on the Internet

Johnny Dickshot wrote:
[url]http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904[/url]

"To say outfielder Mike Cameron is mailing it in is an insult to postal workers everywhere."

Hey asshole. He almost killed himself playing for the Mets yesterday.

This guy is disgraceful.


OK, one at a time.

Actually, the title of this thread _ if you wish to be taken seriously _ is disgraceful. Way to go, buds.

Secondly, it was NYFS _ not Gotham Baseball _ that incorrectly reported the Moises Alou "signing". I reported a rumor to their news desk _ which at the time was being manned by no one associated currently witrh GB _ was they made it "official". Nice cheap shot, though. As well as not mentioning the nearly 100 accuracy of GB's Rumor Mill this year.

Next, and most importantly, the column being discussd here was written and posted days before the collison. Mr. McGann is not the only writer _ or fan _ that feels that Cammy was "mailing it in" prior to the trading deadline.

Maybe it was his .205 BA in June, or the robust .225 he posted in July?

Oh and the "three games out", and "they're not done!"

This team hasn't shown the mental toughness to beat the Pittsburgh Pirates, let alone outlast the THREE teams they have ahead of them in the NL East and wildcard standings.

Cammy's injury, IMO, gives them a better chance to win. Diaz, IMO, is a better all-around hitter. Offense, not RF defense, is this team's biggest problem.

So, instead of getting personal, and spilling your Kool-Aid all over yourself in the process, try arguing the merits of the article _ like SI Metman did _ , as opposed to the mostly stupid commentary I just read.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 13 2005 11:02 AM

Secondly, it was NYFS _ not Gotham Baseball _ that incorrectly reported the Moises Alou "signing". I reported a rumor to their news desk _ which at the time was being manned by no one associated currently witrh GB _ was they made it "official". Nice cheap shot, though.

Way to pass the buck, Scoop.

Here's the thread. Somehow the handle "Heals9" has been replaced with "guest" -- perhaps this has to do with bad feelings over blaming the poor fans you teased all winter long by goosing them with one inaccurate story after another, I don't know or particulary care) but you can still see the handle when the post is quoted.

[url]http://www.nyfansites.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=9383&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=alou&start=0[/url]

On page 11: "I'm not sure why no one else is reporting it...My No. 1 guy gave it to me about 30 seconds before I gave it to the Mods to post...the Mets obviouslyu have their own reasons for not releasing it yet.

Also, the papaers may give it a few days...god forbid they have to give a web site credit for breaking the story..."


In another thread, it's more succinct: "done deal."

Which of the bad journalists over there made you post that?

Then:

Omar will be making a huge deal this weekend, that's all I can say right now...but I wouldn't be shocked if Reyes was no longer a Met by Monday.

Look -- I'm as hot for news as the next Met fan here, but the thing about news is that its either true or it isn't and the thing about words is they have meaning. I take special exception to this kind of sloppiness because it devalues the work of everyone attempting to do something good on the Internet (like for instance Greg W.) -- the poor spelling, bad grammar and almost exclusive use of "high-level unnamed sources" who evidently keep being returned to no matter how bad they make you look, is offensive to me as a writer; and the cheap shots like McGann's knock on Cameron -- I strongly dispute the your notion that other responsible jounalists had viewed Cameron's recent struggles as laziness as "fans" and hacks writing in the first-person on the Internet might -- contributes to what I perceive as a general ugliness with which Met fans have behaved all year long. It is absolutely disgraceful.

Edgy DC
Aug 13 2005 12:04 PM

I'll just work with that slliy point about batting averages. Since when is low batting average (and Cameron has never been associated with high ones) over a period equal an absence of etfort?

That's evidence?

It's a freaking smear job and you know it.

Nymr83
Aug 13 2005 12:52 PM

]I strongly dispute the your notion that other responsible jounalists had viewed Cameron's recent struggles as laziness as "fans" and hacks writing in the first-person on the Internet might -


without commenting one way or the other on the truth of that statement, i just have to say WHO CARES. being a f*ckin journalist or writer does not make you any more qualified to judge a team than any other fan who follows the team on a daily basis.

Nymr83
Aug 13 2005 01:00 PM

my new favorite column: "Please, no more Ishii"
[url]http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=916[/url]

Edgy DC
Aug 13 2005 02:13 PM

]without commenting one way or the other on the truth of that statement, i just have to say WHO CARES. being a f*ckin journalist or writer does not make you any more qualified to judge a team than any other fan who follows the team on a daily basis.


Well, it depends on what you mean by journalist, but it sure should qualify you.

Mark Healey
Aug 13 2005 02:19 PM

Edgy DC wrote:
I'll just work with that slliy point about batting averages. Since when is low batting average (and Cameron has never been associated with high ones) over a period equal an absence of etfort?

That's evidence?

It's a freaking smear job and you know it.


Whatever.

Mike McGann spends weeks on the road covering the entire Mets system, talks to countless FO types, but this forum is the bastion of truth. Ok.

Cammy is an imcomplete and flawed as a baseball player as anyone, yet for some reason gets a pass for being about as useless an offensive player for huge stretches as I have ever seen.

I have never understood the beat guys and certain fans' attachment to Cameron _ and while I certainly hopes he heals and is back, able to play (for another team) next season _ the idea that he is this "warrior" or "great teammate" is simply overstated.

He got hurt because he was trying to catch a baseball, not because he saw a baseball coming for Beltran and dove in front of it to save his life.

Was he a great clubhouse guy when the Mets were stabbing Art Howe in the back every day?

Was he a great teammate when he backtracked on his original "I'll play RF when we get Beltran."

Is he quotable? Sure.

I was also in the clubhouse the day he blew a fly ball in the sun, and cost Glavine and the Mets a ball game, and not once did he say," My bad, I should have had it."

+++++

As to my Alou story:

Omar himself thought he had "Alou in the bag" and there was an agreement in principal, which is what I reported. Alou telling his agent "to get it done" during the Pedro press conference was pretty much a "done deal" in my eyes.

Well, neither Omar nort I knew that he was working the Giants for a player option, and that's what made him a Giant, not some some special relationship with his dad.

To equate what I've written in a post as opposed to what I have written as a news story is rather silly, though.

What should I have done, o wise and all-knowing one?

I tell you what I should do now; know better than to reply to "writers" that use internet psuedonyms instead of their real names, which is a real brave way to criticize other writers.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 13 2005 02:25 PM

Yeah, the point was only in responding to the idea stated above that not only was Cameron dogging it, but that was something that other writers were also reporting. I don't see it.

Edgy DC
Aug 13 2005 02:44 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 13 2005 07:00 PM

]Whatever.


Please don't pass attitude off as commentary. Let's not act like third graders.

]Mike McGann spends weeks on the road covering the entire Mets system, talks to countless FO types, but this forum is the bastion of truth. Ok.


This forum is a forum, nothing more. Plenty of nonsense gets written here and it's embarrassing.

]Cammy is an imcomplete and flawed as a baseball player as anyone, yet for some reason gets a pass for being about as useless an offensive player for huge stretches as I have ever seen.


I think for about ten seconds and I can come up with ten players more incomplete and more flawed. Give me a minute and I can likely come up with sixty. Distortion passed off as analysis isn't any more impressive than "whatever," from a third-grader or anyone else.

]I have never understood the beat guys and certain fans' attachment to Cameron _ and while I certainly hopes he heals and is back, able to play (for another team) next season _ the idea that he is this "warrior" or "great teammate" is simply overstated.


As a fan, he plays baseball, often plays well, and I appreciate that. I don't know where the "warrior" or "great teammate" quotes come from so let's not try and re-frame the argument away from things that were actually said that you're defending.

]He got hurt because he was trying to catch a baseball, not because he saw a baseball coming for Beltran and dove in front of it to save his life.


Does it not fly directly into the face of the "mailing it in" comment?

]Was he a great clubhouse guy when the Mets were stabbing Art Howe in the back every day?

Was he a great teammate when he backtracked on his original "I'll play RF when we get Beltran."


This is more reframing.

]I was also in the clubhouse the day he blew a fly ball in the sun, and cost Glavine and the Mets a ball game, and not once did he say," My bad, I should have had it."


What did he say? Was there evidence of mail? Because none of this qualifies.

Nymr83
Aug 13 2005 02:57 PM

]Cammy is an imcomplete and flawed as a baseball player as anyone, yet for some reason gets a pass for being about as useless an offensive player for huge stretches as I have ever seen.


]I think for about ten seconds and I can come up with ten players more incomplete and more flawed. Give me a minute and I can likely up with sixty. Distortion passed off as analysis isn't any more impressive than "whatever," from a third-grader or anyone else.


neither of your comments qualify as "analysis" why not post numbers showing cameron is either below, at, or above average? i'd do it myself but i'm watching the game.

Edgy DC
Aug 13 2005 03:03 PM

Above or below average isn't the issue.

Do you really want me to name ten more flawed players? HIs comment is absurd on the face of it and you know it.

Spacemans Bong
Aug 13 2005 05:05 PM

I find it amusing how writing for an anonymous website qualifies you as a journalist.

If that's the case, then I'm a f*ckin Pulitzer Prize winner for editing my college paper.

GothamBaseball.com is irrelevant.

TheOldMole
Aug 13 2005 06:00 PM

We're all a bunch of amateurs, and we're all a bunch of fans. None of us will ever know one tenth as much baseball as Sam Perlozzo, to pick a name at random.

And I see nothing wrong with that. I love baseball, love to talk about it, but I'm talking as a fan.

I've always thought that sports talk radio was the worst thing to ever happen to sports, because guys think that just because they can call into a show (or, in the case of Mike and the Dog, just because they have a show) it somehow makes them qualify as experts. The Internet is an extension of the same thing.

Nymr83
Aug 13 2005 06:48 PM

being a columist for some paper doesn't necessarily make you knowledgeable or qualified either.

TheOldMole
Aug 13 2005 07:35 PM

Also true.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 14 2005 09:11 PM

]Omar himself thought he had "Alou in the bag" and there was an agreement in principal, which is what I reported. Alou telling his agent "to get it done" during the Pedro press conference was pretty much a "done deal" in my eyes.

Well, neither Omar nort I knew that he was working the Giants for a player option, and that's what made him a Giant, not some some special relationship with his dad.

To equate what I've written in a post as opposed to what I have written as a news story is rather silly, though.

What should I have done, o wise and all-knowing one?


You probably should have done what you expect of Mike Cameron when he loses a fly ball in the sun and say, "My bad. I blew that one." I only quoted your silly message board discussion to dispute your contention here that you were somehow sandbagged by guys at the other site. At the least, you appeared to be just as wrong as anyone, and even if you were close, which I'm not disputing, you still missed. That's OK... But when you get called on these things, in my opinion you'd be better off owning up to it than the arrogant tap-dance you'd performed here and on that other message board. It makes you look bad.

Now I'll confess you were right -- my use of the word "assholes" was impolitic, wrong, and unecessarily dragged people here and over there into a lousy discussion. Sorry about that. I'll go change it to something less imflammatory.

All I intended to dispute from that article was that one bad sentence -- the notion that Cameron hadn't hustled. No need to interpret the argument as to whether Cameron was a "warrior," a great player, or even a good one. His relationship with the press doesn't matter. What team he plays for doesn't matter. His flaws don't matter, unless the flaw includes a lack of hustle which, as I've said, I hadn't seen nor read about even when he struggled offensively and certainly not when in an attempt to make a play he broke his face. What's at issue is whether he was dogging it.

I don't think you've made a case yet for that remark, and let's be frank: It's because there isn't one. Maybe it's time to admit to another mistake.