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Red Sox getting Burnett?

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 17 2005 04:51 PM

MLB aide: Sox
will get Burnett

Marlins righthander A.J. Burnett will be traded to the Red Sox within a week, an MLB official said yesterday. Boston plans to sign Burnett to an extension.

Red Sox special assistant Bill Lajoie watched Burnett's outing Thursday in Philadelphia, when he allowed six runs in five innings, including second-inning homers to Pat Burrell, Ryan Howard and Mike Lieberthal. Burnett is 5-6 with a 3.64 ERA in 18 starts this season.

"There is no truth at all to any deal we are making with the Marlins," Sox GM Theo Eptein said via an E-mail.

Sosh rumors suggest a 3-way:

Florida gets:
Bronson Arroyo
Kelly Shoppach
Sean Burroughs

Boston Gets:
AJ Burnett
Mike Lowell

San Diego Gets:
Abe Alvarez (Boston LHP prospect)

Jul 17 2005 04:52 PM

Looks like a phenomenal deal for the MFMarlins if that goes through.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 17 2005 04:55 PM

I dunno. They swap out one struggling 3Bman for another and take a "stuff" downgrade on the mound. They do get a good looking catching prospect.

Jul 17 2005 04:56 PM

Very interesting deal if it goes through that way, it probably helps all three teams, Arroyo looks like the odd one out, he's been more than good for the Sox, Lowell probably needs to get away form FLA,maybe playing 3rd at Fenway wakes him up, is Burnet worth all that though?

Edgy DC
Jul 17 2005 06:39 PM

Lowell is a heck of a hitter when he's on.

Burroughs will do well someday, I guess. It's hard to see when that will be. It's gutsy for Florida to trust their scouts like that, but the last time Florida did a challenge trade featuring a guy at his seeming peak for a guy allegedly on the verge, they gave up the guy who is looking like the 2005 MVP for Hee Seop Choi and Mike Nannini.

Jul 17 2005 07:55 PM

What, you don't think Nannini makes up the difference between Choi and Derrek Lee?

Why do the Red Sox need Lowell and his contract? I really can't see them blocking Youkilis any further for Lowell's sake. And there's the minor detail that when you factor in the ballparks, the DH, and the AL East line-ups, Arroyo is having the better year. It makes no sense at all for the Red Sox.

Plus, the Marlins currently have Josh Willingham blocked by Paul LoDuca at catcher, so adding another AAA catcher doesn't make all that much sense for them either. And I could see them keeping Burroughs as a reserve and moving Cabrera to third to clear their outfield logjam, but Burroughs has had enough chances at this point.

I'm inclined to believe Epstein on this one.

Frayed Knot
Jul 17 2005 09:01 PM

FWIW: Gammons says Sox denying any involvement in Burnett talks.

Jul 17 2005 11:23 PM

just checking in to say i'm not dead...i havent been around much lately....this trade would suck for my roto team losing burnett to the al

Edgy DC
Jul 17 2005 11:52 PM

Told you he wasn't dead.

Jul 18 2005 07:39 AM
not sure about burroughs ...

yeah he's only 24 but he's just shown NO power at all, it's not as if he's got 50 doubles that he could convert into 25 home runs and 25 doubles he's been hitting just over 20 doubles per season. that ain't near enough.

Jul 18 2005 07:47 AM

Count me in in the "doesn't make sense" camp. I mean, it makes sense for the Sox, assuming that they take Lowell because the Marlins want to dump him, but it doesn't make sense for the Marlins. Maybe if they got Papelbon instead of Shoopach . . .

Jul 18 2005 11:44 AM

Ken Rosenthal thinks the O's are getting Burnett.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 18 2005 11:51 AM

It sounds like the Marlins are going to be pretty active. The glow is definitely off McKeon, who might get fired, this article sez:

Source: McKeon's job at risk

Mounting losses could result in manager change
By Mike Berardino
Staff writer

July 18, 2005

The Marlins' malaise has deepened to the point where not even manager Jack McKeon appears immune from change.

According to a National League official, the Marlins are giving serious consideration to firing the popular McKeon in an effort to shake up one of baseball's biggest disappointments.

"Everything at this point is being considered -- everything," the NL official said Sunday night.

The top candidate to replace McKeon, 74, would be Yankees bench coach Joe Girardi, the source said. Girardi, a favorite of Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria, could have been the Marlins' bench coach but turned down their offer last fall.

As of Sunday night, a Yankees source said the Marlins had not asked for permission to discuss a possible opening with Girardi, 40. The Yankees source also said the Marlins probably "would have to look elsewhere" for their next manager, although such matters are typically negotiable.

Other names being considered are former Marlins managers Jim Leyland and Jeff Torborg, Devil Rays manager Lou Piniella, former Red Sox manager Grady Little and Braves third-base coach Fredi Gonzalez.

Leyland, a part-time scout for the Cardinals, led the Marlins to their first World Series title in 1997. Torborg, a Fox television analyst, has earned the gratitude of Marlins management with his refusal to burn bridges since his May 2003 firing.

Piniella is under contract through 2006, but he and the Rays have been exploring exit strategies.

Loria was in Philadelphia this weekend, where he watched his team drop three of four games to the Phillies to start the second half. Loria and General Manager Larry Beinfest were expected to accompany the Marlins to Arizona, where they begin a three-game series tonight.

Rumblings of discord in the Marlins clubhouse have surfaced periodically this summer, and at least three team meetings have been called to address the complaints. Marlins officials, in conversations with other baseball people, have begun wondering aloud whether McKeon has lost the clubhouse.

"It's an open question whether Jack has lost the team," the NL official said. "I certainly don't think he has lost all of it, but he has lost some of it."

It was McKeon who replaced Torborg and led the Marlins to an improbable run to the World Series crown. The Marlins fell to third place at 83-79 last year, but with Loria authorizing a club-record $66 million payroll, they were the preseason favorites in many circles to win the NL East.

Since reaching a season-best 26-16 on May 24, the Marlins have gone 19-29 and fallen into a last-place tie with the Mets. Now mulling over trades to send away pitcher A.J. Burnett and third baseman Mike Lowell, the Marlins are seven games behind the first-place Nationals and 5 games behind the Braves in the wild-card race.

A report on ESPN mentioned Braves special assistant Jim Fregosi as a leading candidate, but Fregosi and Marlins star Carlos Delgado clashed when they were together in Toronto. That fact likely eliminates Fregosi from consideration.

Jul 18 2005 11:57 AM

Interesting list of managers if trader Jack gets the boot, Lou Piniella would probably cost a lot but would be a great move, how is Joe Girardi on that list, or any list for that matter.

Jul 18 2005 12:07 PM

does ANYONE think that they'd actually bring Jeff Torberg back?

Jul 18 2005 12:10 PM

Yeah really, what is Torberg doing on the list, why is Bobby Valentine never mentioned when jobs open up or in this case the possibility of an opening.

Jul 18 2005 12:31 PM

Jeffs Loria and Torborg are good buddies. Loria went on once about how letting Torborg go was the hardest thing he's ever done.

Frayed Knot
Jul 18 2005 12:39 PM

That sounds like it's got all the makings of a really bad country music song:

Jeff, letting you go was the hardest thing I've ever done. - Jeff

Frayed Knot
Jul 18 2005 10:45 PM

Gammons saying tonight that Burnett to Bal'mer is pretty much a done deal and should be finalized by mid-day tomorrow.

3 players going the other way; Reliever Jorge Julio (who happens to be pitching right NOW!!!! in the 10th inn in Mini-soda), plus starter Hayden Penn, plus some other dude who I forgot already (OFer Matos maybe?).
Apparently it's all contingent on Burnett inking a deal to take him out of the FA market this winter.

If he's on board - and Eric Bedard retunring from injury (he started tonight) - the O's might actually have a fighting chance in the AL East. I had pretty much written them off.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 18 2005 10:52 PM

I've gotta start spending more time at SoJO (Sons of Joe Orsulak).

Go O's!

Jul 18 2005 10:55 PM

Mora will play 1st base says Gammons, Melvin is the ultimate team player.

Frayed Knot
Jul 18 2005 11:02 PM

Did he say Mora will play 1st or that Lowell would?

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that taking Lowell (and at least part of his salary) is one of the conditions of the trade.

Jul 18 2005 11:09 PM

I guess you watched Baseball Tonight like I did,Harold Reynolds wouldn't shut up talking when gammons was talking aobut the trade, IIRC he said that Lowell would play 3rd and Mora would play 1st.

Ken Rosenthal says the deal has expanded...

]Burnett deal expands; third team now in talks
Posted: July 18, 2005

The Orioles' pursuit of Marlins righthander A.J. Burnett has expanded to a possible three-way deal in which the Pirates would acquire Marlins third baseman Mike Lowell, Sporting News has learned.

Under the proposed trade -- the details of which remain fluid -- the Pirates would send lefthander Mark Redman to the Marlins and first baseman Daryle Ward to the Orioles. They would receive Lowell, cash and possibly Class AAA center fielder Eric Reed from Florida, along with outfielder Larry Bigbie from Baltimore.

The Marlins would wind up with Redman plus Orioles Class AA righthander Hayden Penn and reliever Jorge Julio. The Orioles, who would acquire Burnett and Ward, also are trying to push righthander Sidney Ponson on the Marlins. Ponson is owed approximately $13.5 million through 2006; the Marlins are believed to have little interest.

While the Marlins likely would pay a significant percentage of the approximately $21 million remaining on Lowell's contract through 2007, they also would gain enough financial flexibility to possibly make another move if they did not add Ponson.

Burnett, 28, is a free agent after this season, and the Marlins would rather trade him than receive only draft picks in return. It is not clear whether the Orioles would require a 72-hour negotiating window to sign Burnett as a condition of the deal. Burnett is seeking a four- or five-year contract for $8 million to $10 million per season. His wife, Karen, is from Bowie, Md., and he has indicated a willingness to sign with the Orioles long-term.

Ward is not an obvious fit for the Orioles, who already have a lefthanded hitting first baseman, Rafael Palmeiro. Both Ward and Palmeiro are eligible for free agency after this season. Palmeiro, who recently attained 3,000 hits, has said he might retire.

Senior writer Ken Rosenthal covers baseball for Sporting News. Email him at

Jul 18 2005 11:25 PM

and the news keeps getting worse for Ty Wigginton -- now he's got Lowell ahead of him too.

Jul 19 2005 09:04 AM

The Pirates have too many infielders already. I'm not sure how this benefits them. But now I'm wondering if the whole league will wind up involved in the deal.

Jul 19 2005 09:06 AM

Do they want Kaz Ishii? He'd make a wonderful Pirate. They can just have him; I don't even want anything for him.

Jul 19 2005 12:30 PM

Aaaargh, find me an image of Kaz dressed as a Pirate for Halloween........

Jul 19 2005 12:51 PM

I'd take Ty back for Kaz.

Bret Sabermetric
Jul 19 2005 01:05 PM

What do they want with Ty? He hustles, he knows how to run the bases, he's cheap, and he can play the infield.

That's four strikes against him on this screwed up club.

Oh, yeah, and he led the Mets in Runs Scored and RBIs two years ago. Six strikes.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 19 2005 01:19 PM

Not for nothing, but Wigginton was a terrible everyday third baseman, defensively, and having led the Mets in the hitting categories you cite was more of a comment on his teammates at the time.

Today, he can't carry David Wright's bags and, comparitively, is older, slower, and more expensive.

Jul 19 2005 01:24 PM

I hate when posters pick and chose little snippets of info to be used for
a particular point and complain when others do it to them. It's even worse
when they then move on and act all vilified and mistreated too like they're
held to another level of accountablitly when nothing is further from fact.

Well, I don't hate it ... but it's annoying to witness.

Jul 19 2005 02:21 PM

Bret Sabermetric wrote:
What do they want with Ty? He hustles, he knows how to run the bases, he's cheap, and he can play the infield.

That's four strikes against him on this screwed up club.

Oh, yeah, and he led the Mets in Runs Scored and RBIs two years ago. Six strikes.
IMHO, this is silly. Ty would be a great player for Norfolk, there is no use for him on the Mets now.

Frayed Knot
Jul 20 2005 10:14 AM

You'll have to forgive Bret because - despite his Zambrano zingers of the past week - his main complaint at the time about last year's trades was that we'd suffer for the loss of the great Ty Wigginton. And now that Ty pretty much fell on his face Bret seems intent on becoming a caraciture of the type of poster he used to make fun of; the one who keeps defending his chosen favorites despite evidence to the contrary.

Back to the Burnett topic.
Not only didn't the deal go down by yesterday as Gammons and others predicted, but Burnett pitched - and pitched well - last night for the Marlins (one fewer start if he even does get dealt) amid reports from Baltimore that any potential deal has stalled over money issues: like how much of Lowell's deal gets paid and by whom.