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Official Let's Buy A New Second Baseman Thread

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 14 2005 10:36 PM

Ray Durham?

If he can stay healthy, he solves the leadoff issue too. Pay the freight and he's ours for a song.. He has a $7 mills option for next year.

Switch hitter still has some pop. Can't vouch for his D or his health.

Frayed Knot
Jul 14 2005 10:56 PM

Supposedly the Mets turned down a straight up Matsui for Durham swap earlier in the year, at least in part because they thought his defense to be atrocious.

Edgy DC
Jul 14 2005 11:13 PM

Isn't Joel Cairo closer to the answer at second than Woodie is at first?

I'd rather get a new first baser, you see.

I guess that's another thread.

Rotblatt
Jul 14 2005 11:24 PM

With AAA'ers Anderson Hernandez hitting .368/.408/.544/.952, Chase Lambin hitting .353/.414/.471/.885, Chris Basak hitting .274/.344/.476/.820 & Keppinger (.337/.377/.455/.832) coming off the DL in 3 weeks at the latest, I think trading for a 2B is a bad idea.

Hernandez & Basak have mostly played shortstop throughout their careers, but they've both been playing a decent amount of second lately, and Lambin is a natural 2B. He has 5 errors in just 15 games, but at least 1 of them came while playing at 3B for the first time.

With so many guys playing well in AAA--not to mention Anderson, Cairo & Woodward capable of playing competent 2B--I can't imagine we'd give up a propsect for yet another 2B.

Hell, we should probably be trading one of our MI guys for prospects . .

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 15 2005 06:31 AM

Edgy DC wrote:
Isn't Joel Cairo closer to the answer at second than Woodie is at first?


Maybe, but we're not getting a fulltime 2Bman off the DL tonite ... and Cairo/Anderson all year long is gonna be painful to watch make plays.

smg58
Jul 15 2005 09:50 AM

My first priority would be to convince Matsui to be bought out of next year's contract so that he can return to Japan. Unless there's a team we could actually deal him to. Hell, maybe we could find a Japanese team who'd purchase his contract. Is that even legal?

Durham's D and his health are exactly what makes him a question mark.

I'd ask Cincinnati about Ryan Freel (once he gets off the DL) and Milwaukee about Billy Hall. Both of them might be like Mark Loretta a few years ago, just waiting for a team to give them a full-time position.

The Mets do have middle-infield depth at AAA, that's for certain, but I don't know if we can count on Keppinger, Lambin, and Basak developing much further given their ages (25, 26, and 26). They could be good utility men, but I don't know if they're starters. Anderson Hernandez intrigues me, but if there's a chance that Reyes could get the Mets more than I think he's worth at this point, I wouldn't move him over to 2B just yet.

Edgy DC
Jul 15 2005 12:35 PM

If Minty is really coming back tonight, then I expect to see Woodie, Anderson, and maybe Offerman take some playing time away from Cairo. To what end, I don't know.

Side note: I have to admit, I see why the zone rating numbers don't reflect well on Matsui, Cairo, and Wright. I don't see why Reyes doesn't have better numbers though, except that the standards for National League shortstops right now are hight.

metirish
Jul 15 2005 12:56 PM

From the NYT..

]INSIDE PITCH

Omar Minaya said yesterday that Kazuo Matsui's left-knee bruise was more severe than first believed and was being treated like a fracture. Matsui, who initially played after sustaining the injury, went on the disabled list June 21 and could be out for another month or more. Minaya did not set a timetable for Matsui's return, but he added that the Mets do not need to acquire another second baseman. It will now be even more difficult to trade Matsui, who is in Port St. Lucie, Fla., taking light swings. ... First baseman Doug Mientkiewicz hit a two-run homer in a rehabilitation game yesterday and is expected to rejoin the Mets by the weekend. Because Mientkiewicz is batting .219, Willie Randolph would not guarantee that he would play every day. ... The Mets are considering skipping Kazuhisa Ishii's turn in the rotation Tuesday.



Durham wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Bret Sabermetric
Jul 15 2005 01:14 PM

Let me take this moment to remind you that when the Mets acquired Matsui (and Cameron, for that matter) one big plus often cited was their extreme durabilty. P.S., both have spent major time on the DL since their arrival.

Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.

Rotblatt
Jul 15 2005 05:30 PM

Neither Lambin nor Keppinger have spent much time in the minors yet (3 & 4 years, respectively), and this year is their first at AAA. I think that balances out their age a bit--they might be old, but it's not like they've plateaued or figured out AAA pitching or something. I don't think they're going to be spectacular or anything, but they might turn out to be passable regulars. And all we're looking for is a 2B who can hit as well as Cairo who has more range. That's not too high of a bar to reach, I think.

Valadius
Jul 15 2005 11:26 PM

We probably should never have gotten Kaz in the first place. Also, I see a very intriguing prospect- trading any kind of pitching and a 2B replacement to Cincy for Felipe Lopez, who's playing some amazing baseball.

Frayed Knot
Jul 15 2005 11:31 PM

Now you just have to come up with a reason why Cincy would be interested in trading a young SS who suddenly is sprouting a good bat.


Welcome btw, I love your onions. Oh wait, those are Vadalia!
Never mind.

Yancy Street Gang
Jul 16 2005 05:59 AM

I think Valadius is a volcano in Italy, the one that destroyed Pompeii.

seawolf17
Jul 16 2005 06:45 AM

No, Valadius was Dracula.

No, wait... that was Vlad the Impaler. Whatever. Welcome!

Valadius
Jul 16 2005 02:09 PM

Thanks for your kind welcomes. I appreciate it.

In terms of why Cincy would trade Lopez, let me give you this statistic:

5.57.

That's their team ERA, good for last in the NL. They are absolutely DESPERATE for pitching. They have plenty of offense, as their 112 homers lead the NL. Offer them any kind of serviceable pitcher, and they'll dangle a bevy of hitters.

By the way, has anyone noticed the resurgence of Ken Griffey Jr.? He's BAAAACK...

smg58
Jul 17 2005 08:20 PM

I like Lopez too, but right now he's the Reds' MVP (such as a team that bad could have one). He'd be the one guy I'd rebuild around. Plus, you always have to consider the ballpark with the Reds. Lopez would still be solid here, but not a worldbeater, and the Reds would have to ask for the world for him, assuming they'd be crazy enough to add him to their likely fire sale.

I mentioned Freel because his game is speed and getting on base. Leadoff hitters who can get on close to 40% of the time AND steal are rare, and the fact that he isn't a power hitter makes me more confident he could reproduce his Cincy numbers here. I'm not sure he's proven enough that I'd give up a lot for him, but I'm also not sure the Reds value him enough that I'd have to.

Frayed Knot
Jul 18 2005 01:48 PM

Speaking of Cincy players who may (or may not) be available;
Sean Casey is still hitting around .300 ... but has 7 extra base hits - 5 2Bs & 2 HRs - for all of June & July. That's over 152 ABs!

There's a notion among some Met fans that this guy's the power hitting 1st-sacker we need. Problem is, not only is he NOT that guy at the moment but he's really only been that guy a few times during his career (1999, 2000 & 2004) - far less often than the times he hasn't ('98, '01, '02, '03 & now '05).
And this year he's showing less power than ever: .095 Isolated Power for the season, .070 since June 1.

I understand he's a fun guy to have around but ... little power, little speed, plus a good (thou hardly great) glove that comes with a big contract which is locked in for at least one more year doesn't make for a tasty package.

sharpie
Jul 18 2005 02:00 PM

Agreed.

]I understand he's a fun guy to have around but ... little power, little speed


Sounds like Mientkiewicz.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 18 2005 02:36 PM

Screw it. Let's give Anderson Hernandez a try.

He switch-hits; Cairo doesn't.

He's 22 and improving; Cairo's 31 and in decline.

He's hitting 381/415/536 @ AAA. He's 10 for 11 in stolen bases. His rep is good glove ... i.e.: he can't be worse defensively and may be better than Cairo.

Cairo can still stick around as a backup/spot starter if we reduce the bullpen by one or swap out Gerald Williams.

Nymr83
Jul 18 2005 02:43 PM

]I'd ask Cincinnati about Ryan Freel (once he gets off the DL) and Milwaukee about Billy Hall.


no thanks to Hall...i'd rather find a buig 1B in the offseason and sort out the many minor leagye infielders we have to see which ones deserve a shot at 2B in Queens.[/code]

smg58
Jul 19 2005 09:10 AM

I'm with you on the first baseman with a bat, although we can't overlook catcher either. 2B is probably not as high a priority, but there might be guys out there who'd help us without costing any of our major bargaining chips.

Rotblatt
Jul 19 2005 09:44 AM

]Screw it. Let's give Anderson Hernandez a try.


I wish we knew how he was adjusting to 2B. 2 errors in 22 games isn't bad and he's certainly not having any problem with the bat, but it's hard to know how he looks out there.

Valent (.888 OPS overall now), Diaz (up to .871 after a brutal start, with just 1 error in 21 games (most in RF)) & Lambin (1.002 but 7 errors in 20 games--many at 3B) are all absolutely en fuego right now, in addition to Hernandez (1.009), so we have options galore.

The problem is who to send down. Offerman & Anderson have been great off the bench, Woody's been solid, we need Castro, and neither Cairo nor Mienktiewicz are going anywhere. If we drop Williams, our only OF options are Anderson or Woody, neither of whom have played much in RF.

Rather than call up another middle infielder, it would probably make more sense to bring up Valent or Diaz, both of whom could play 1B or OF, but we'd have to be committed to playing them enough to make it worthwhile.

Our bench is cluttered with experienced middle infielders who have performed decently, making it awfully difficult to send em down. I'd love to see us trade one or two of them and call up Anderson, but it might take a trade to free up enough space on our bench . . .

Or we wait until September, which still feels awfully far away to me.

Edgy DC
Jul 19 2005 09:50 AM

If Randolph allows Diaz and/or Valent to play first, I can't see how there wouldn't be enough PT for them.

I've got pins of them and everything.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 19 2005 10:10 AM

I wouldn't worry about the cost to the bench if you solve the starter problem.

As solid as they've been, I'd trade Marlon Anderson, Cairo, Woody or Offerman in about 5 seconds if it came in service of improving the starting offense. Not to mention Valent and a bunch of other fringy guys.

The Mets only problem right now is that they run below-average players out there at 1st and 2nd every night. That is a big problem!

Rotblatt
Jul 19 2005 01:56 PM

Maybe we could trade Cairo, Glavine & Offerman to the Yankees for Sean Henn plus one of whatever else passes for a prospect down there.

From the Yankees perspective, Cairo is a True Yankee, Glavine is a Hall of Famer and Henn has clearly demonstrated that he can't handle the Yankee Stage. Plus, the Yankee bench sucks and their one threat, Sierra, looks DL-bound.

From our perspective, we unload Glavine's salary and get an okay lefty pitching prospect without giving up too much (assuming one agrees that Cairo's not too much).

We then trade Ishii somewhere else for a bag of balls and send Williams down, then put Seo & Heilman into the rotation, call up Blake, Anderson to platoon with the other Anderson until he runs away with it or flames out, bring up Valent to take Offerman's spot, and Diaz to take Williams'.

end result

C Piazza/Castro
1B Mientkiewicz/Valent
2B Anderson/Hernandez
3B Wright
SS Reyes
RF Cameron
CF Beltran
LF Floyd

Bench: Diaz, Anderson/Hernandez, Woody, Mientkiewicz/Valent, Piazza/Castro

Rotation: Petey, Benson, Zambrano, Heilman, Seo
Pen: Loopy, Robo, Bell, Ring, Padilla, Graves, Blake

Once Trachs gets back, we either move Seo back down to AAA if he doesn't transition well to the majors or put Heilman back in the pen since he's doing well there, moving either Blake or Graves to AAA.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 19 2005 02:00 PM

Sean Henn isn't any good. Shirley you can't be serious

sharpie
Jul 19 2005 02:24 PM

Policy: No trades with Yankees unless they are to give them back some of their used jet-trash like Stanton.

Rotblatt
Jul 19 2005 02:46 PM

I thought Henn was one of their better prospects . . . Not that that's saying much.

At any rate, my intent was for us to get one of their top 5 prospects (but not top 1 or 2) plus a middling prospect.

sharpie
Jul 19 2005 02:58 PM

Look elsewhere. Stop suggesting that the Mets trade with the Yankees.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 19 2005 03:04 PM

Henn is a 30th round draft pick with remarkably pedestrian minor league #s. I can't imagine him being any more useful as a Major Leaguer than what remains of the MLB careers of any of the 3 you mentioned.

F that. If the Yankees want any Mets, they can start by offering Matsui or Arod, then move down to Cano, then bite my fat one.

My issue with the Benitez trade with them was that it had such little potential of hurting them in the long run it was barely worth the effort. I think trades with just about any other team ought to be a situation where the partners help one another but I want the MFYs to bleed every time.

seawolf17
Jul 19 2005 03:13 PM

Once again, I long for the old Steinbrenner:

George: Cashman, get in here!
Brian: Yes, boss?
G: So this left-handed kid who pitched so well for us Sunday. He used to be a Met, eh?
B: Well, yes, but...
G: Do you think they have any other lefthanders we could use?
B: Well, they have two, but...
G: Get them!
B: But, boss, they both--
G: I don't care! Get me ex-Met lefthanders!
B: I don't know if it's prudent to--
G: Do they want that Japanese fella? I can't understand a word he's saying. Besides, I think the Mets have a Japanese fella. Maybe they can talk to each other.
B: I don't know if we want to give up Hid--
G: Make it that Japanese fella for those two Met lefties! See if they want Armando Benitez back, too.
B: Well, we don't have--
G: Never mind! Just get me those lefthanded kids!

sharpie
Jul 19 2005 03:29 PM

And while you're at it.. get me a calzone.

Rotblatt
Jul 19 2005 05:07 PM

Oh, I'm all for getting Matsui out of the deal, but I don't see how any combination of Glavine, Cairo & our scrubs gets us there.

And it looks like I was grossly wrong about Henn. Ah, well.

Anyway, I don't mind trading with the MFY so long as our trade isn't stupid. Mine probably was, since I overvalued Henn, but that's why I'm not a GM . . .

Or are I?

Elster88
Jul 19 2005 05:09 PM

What exactly would we do with Matsui? Replace Floyd next year? An OF is not something we need, I'd rather have the Yanquis prospects, or another teams' prospects if the Yankees' prospects suck.

Edgy DC
Jul 19 2005 05:17 PM

[code:1]Oh, I'm all for getting Matsui out of the deal, but I don't see how any combination of Glavine, Cairo & our scrubs gets us there. [/code:1]

Then cest la vie. Move on.

metirish
Jul 21 2005 01:20 PM

Is hustling Soriano in the Mets future?...

]Ken Rosenthal

Inside Dish: Soriano back in New York?
Posted: July 20, 2005

Both New York teams could snap to attention if the Rangers decide to trade second baseman Alfonso Soriano. Though Soriano has resisted playing center field, perhaps he would reconsider if he were traded back to the Yankees, the team for which Alex Rodriguez was willing to move from shortstop to third base. The Yankees' problem is that they can't satisfy the Rangers' need for pitching.

The Mets, last in the National League in on-base/slugging percentage (OPS) at second base, are an even more obvious fit for Soriano. The Rangers have shown past interest in Mets shortstop Jose Reyes, but it's extremely doubtful the Mets would trade him, even though Reyes entered Wednesday's play with the sixth-lowest OPS among major leaguers who qualify for the batting title.

The Mets' loss of Class A righthander Philip Humber, who recently underwent elbow-ligament transplant surgery, has reduced the team's minor league pitching depth, making it unlikely that the Mets would part with Class AA righthander Yusmeiro Petit. A package of Petit and outfielder Victor Diaz is the type that could tempt the Rangers for Soriano. ...


Elster88
Jul 21 2005 01:23 PM

]Is hustling Soriano in the Mets future?...

I hope not.

metirish
Jul 21 2005 01:27 PM

He sure can hit though, and you know coming back to NY, playing for WWSB would be enough to get Soriano to hustle and play hard all the time.

Elster88
Jul 21 2005 01:30 PM

Unless they take Kaz back in the trade, I don't see how this works. We could just stick Kaz on the bench I guess. I'd rather buy a thumping first baseman in the offseason.

Frayed Knot
Jul 21 2005 01:46 PM

]He sure can hit though, and you know coming back to NY, playing for WWSB would be enough to get Soriano to hustle and play hard all the time.


Why, he didn't hustle for Torre in his first trek around NY and he's not doing it for taskmaster Showalter down there either.
The other night he hit a fly-ball (not a liner mind you, but a long fly) off the CF fence, where it was fielded by the worst arm in MLB (Bernie) and then there was a double-relay to get the runner from 1st at home.

So where was Soriano when all that finished? ... AT FIRST BASE!!!!
He didn't run when he hit it, didn't run once in fell, and didn't run while the Yanx were throwing the ball around not even paying attention to Soriano.


The guy can hit but I've never liked him.
Keep in mind also that he'll cost you lots of young players now, is making some $8mil this year, a probable $10 or so in arb next year, and then will have to be paid as a FA.

metirish
Jul 21 2005 01:51 PM

yeah, yeah, I was being sarcastic, I saw the play you are talking about, horrible.

Frayed Knot
Jul 21 2005 02:21 PM

Sorry I missed your sarcasm.
Maybe I've just heard too many NYM fans recently talk about Soriano as the "perfect fit" and as someone who'll be their 2nd baseman for the next 10 years as if the laws of FA-gency have been suspended.
Yes he's good and is probably available (though I doubt until the off-season) but he's only available if we pay through the nose for him and if we're going to pay through the nose I'd rather save my allowance and spend it somewhere else instead.

Rotblatt
Jul 21 2005 02:41 PM

]He sure can hit though


Only at Arlington, apparently.

2005 H: 1.034 OPS
2005 A: .652 OPS

2004 H: .885 OPS
2004 A: .735 OPS

Pass.