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Mets All Stars

ScarletKnight41
Jul 04 2005 09:18 AM

Piazza, Beltran and Pedro are going to Detroit next week.

seawolf17
Jul 04 2005 09:28 AM

When was the last time there were as many Mets as Yankees going to the All-Star game? (And this year, Sheffield might not even belong there, even though he was selected as a reserve.) This is the first time since 1996 that the MFYs have had as few as three All-Stars.

Props to the voters for getting Derrek Lee, Mark Teixeira and Brian Roberts correct.

No props to anybody for leaving Cliff Floyd off the roster. Can we switch him in for Beltran? Do you think anyone will notice?

Let's get out there and make sure Jeter and Matsui don't get voted in as the extra player. Vote Carl Crawford or Scott Podsednik, everybody!

TheOldMole
Jul 04 2005 09:52 AM

We know in our hearts that Cliffie is an allstar.

Spacemans Bong
Jul 04 2005 10:18 AM

I'd rather Beltran get the week off to rest the leg and Floyd go in his place.

Bret Sabermetric
Jul 04 2005 11:15 AM

If you ever needed a reminder that All-Star teams are about reputation, not results, the Mets' contingent this year will serve nicely. Other than Pedro, the choices are a joke: so far this year Beltran and Piazza are less deserving of a spot than Floyd, and no more deserving than Cameron and Wright, and maybe even Reyes. It doesn't matter much, though I'd want to remind people of the crapshoot effect whenever we discuss All-Star seasons as having any relevance to HOF selection.

Rotblatt
Jul 04 2005 11:50 AM

Yeah, I agree. There's no way Beltran should be going to the All-Star game, unless, of course, voters are basing it on his amazing second half last season. If that's the case, I suppose it makes sense.

Piazza actually isn't a bad selection for his half season so long as you're only looking at offense. He's tied for the lead in HR by catchers and is also tied for second in OPS (among catchers with over 200 PA). Of course, if you take in defense, it should be LoDuca or Barrett all the way.

I think Rolen's the bigger joke. He's been terrible when he's been bad when he's been able to play, which hasn't been much.

At any rate, I'll be happy seeing our three guys out there, although I hope LaRussa doesn't trot them out there too much . . .

TheOldMole
Jul 04 2005 12:38 PM

I don't agree that the All-Star balloting should be for best half-season. I think it's a chance for fans to see living legends play. I have no problem with fans voting on that basis.

That works for Piazza, not Beltran.

Bret Sabermetric
Jul 04 2005 01:46 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 12 2005 06:38 PM

I proposed a system once
http://p079.ezboard.com/fthecranepoolforumfrm21.showMessage?topicID=518.topic

that would make the A-S team reflect the various constituencies (players, managers, fans, sportswriters) and the various methodologies (best half-season, best lifetime, best overall) plus incorporate the other subtleties (each team having one player, etc.), but that just just made too much damned sense for baseball to adopt.
Essentially, it had different groups choosing different groups of All-Stars, turning the voting from a big-bang result into a lot of little results, adding up to one big team.

Never in a million years happen.

OE: added link

holychicken
Jul 04 2005 03:10 PM

If the allstar game was meaningless, as it has been in the past, I would fully back the "living legend" vvoting. But considering it determines who gets home field advantage, it should be the best current players.

seawolf17
Jul 04 2005 03:20 PM

If you were a Cardinals fan, and your team was on the road in Game 7 of the 2005 World Series because the AL stole four or five bases against Mike Piazza in the first inning, leading to a bunch of runs, would you be pissed? I suppose you'd be happy that you're in the World Series, but a lot of people would be talking about it, the way we remember Blalock's homer of Gagne last summer.

Gotta get this "this one matters" crap outta here, I agree.

holychicken
Jul 04 2005 04:07 PM

I don't care which goes, but something has got to give.

metirish
Jul 04 2005 06:24 PM

My biggest problem is that every team has to be represented, so players like Floyd and Jose Guillen get screwed while the likes of Jason Bay and Alou go , and if Beltran is not worthy this year neither is Scott Rolen, he has missed a lot of games.

Floyd or Guillien are not even on the NL Final Vote Candidates list, that's a shame.

Frayed Knot
Jul 04 2005 10:33 PM

For all the bitching about the fans' votes, I thought they got it just about right on the AL side. The NL vote was messed up in a couple places but y'know what ... big fuckin deal.
Yeah, you could replace Beltran, Rolen & Piazza with Ensberg, Guillen/Floyd and ... I dunno even know who really deserves the catching spot - but it's not like this is life-and-death stuff here. The only thing sillier than making the home-field dependant on the outcome of this game is worrying about the whole thing to begin with. Since this system has been in place, the WS has been won both times by ... the road team. Home field simply doesn't mean that much in baseball and tying that "edge" to the result of the AS game is just a silly way of artificially injecting "suspense" into a mid-season exhibition game which isn't as popular as it once was. I've said before that the problem stems from the fact that they start the voting so early in the season that fans can't help but vote for players based on rep alone.
It all makes for some barroom/talk radio discussion but frankly I got bigger things to worry about.

I hope Cliff enjoys his 3 days off w/his kids.

metirish
Jul 04 2005 10:44 PM

Yeah frayed knot it all makes for good radio/internet fodder, I'd like to see the OF spots be voted on by position, that way you don't get two centerfielders playing on the NL side.



National League starters

C: Mike Piazza, Mets

1B: Derrek Lee, Cubs

2B: Jeff Kent, Dodgers

3B: Scott Rolen, Cardinals

SS: David Eckstein, Cardinals

OF: Bobby Abreu, Phillies

Carlos Beltran, Mets

Jim Edmonds, Cardinals



American League starters

C: Jason Varitek, Red Sox

1B: Mark Teixeira, Rangers

2B: Brian Roberts, Orioles

3B: Alex Rodriguez, Yankees

SS: Miguel Tejada, Orioles

OF: Johnny Damon, Red Sox

OF Vladimir Guerrero, Angels

OF Manny Ramirez, Red Sox

DH: David Ortiz, Red Sox

Frayed Knot
Jul 04 2005 10:48 PM

It's just that when they have something like 64 guys on the two rosters I'm not going to cry too loudly and say we've got to take the fans' vote away because they only get 59 or 60 of them correct.

metirish
Jul 04 2005 10:53 PM

It was so bloody funny watching the selection show last night on Baseball Tonight and the shock and horror expressed by Karl Ravich(sp) and teh rest of the BT crew that Jeter didn't get voted on the AL team,I thought Ravich was going to cry...

cooby
Jul 04 2005 11:00 PM

I think it's kinda goofy to assume that these guys will play their butts off for "home field advantage in the WS" when 95% of them know they will not be there.

Frayed Knot
Jul 04 2005 11:01 PM

Ah yes, "The Face of Baseball" could be missing from the game.

STFU!

metirish
Jul 04 2005 11:10 PM

But Cooby if you were to listen to Terry Francoma talk about it he thinks "homefield" is vital and was huge for the Sox last year,yeah FK, I couldn't believe they actually called Jeter "the face of baseball", and more than once as well.

metsmarathon
Jul 05 2005 08:28 AM

if jete's doesn't make it, do ya suppose they'll hafta change the ads?

metirish
Jul 05 2005 09:55 AM

well damn it I'm doing my bit to make sure Derek dickhead and Matsui don't go, I spent the last 10 minutes voting for Torii Hunter and Trevor Hoffman, and I'l continue to vote all day...

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp

seawolf17
Jul 05 2005 10:04 AM

I don't care if Matsui goes; I don't hate him so much. It really is Anyone But Jeter. I voted Crawford and Oswalt, though.

I was poking around on SoSH this morning, seeing if anyone mentioned any deep-rooted desire to acquire Roberto Hernandez and/or Braden Looper to help their ailing bullpen, and they're talking about voting for Matsui. Together with (hopefully) the Japanese vote, it should be enough to keep Jeter off the team.

Of course, there are always injuries, so you know Jeter's making the team, no matter how anyone votes.

Rotblatt
Jul 05 2005 10:52 AM

Shouldn't NL fans vote for the worst AL'ers and vice versa?

I mean, in theory, we should want "our" league to win, right?

Not that I'm trying to make a case for Jeter getting in, or anything . . .

Anyway, are we so sure that Francona's going to select Jeter as an injury replacement?

seawolf17
Jul 05 2005 02:53 PM

Annual All-Star [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar05/news/story?id=2100357]bonus[/url] article.

Disturbing, methinks, that guys like A-Rod and Beltran and Vlad Guerrero have All-Star bonus clauses. You know, guys, you're supposed to make the All-Star team every year. That's why you're already being paid 82 bazillion dollars a year.

metirish
Jul 05 2005 11:32 PM

Nothing to be really proud of but I voted today over a hundred times for Torii Hunter and Trevor Hoffman for the online vote to make the All-Star team, Hoffamn I would have voted for anyway, the hundred plus votes for Hunter were more about Jeter than anything else.

Rotblatt
Jul 06 2005 07:42 AM

heh. I kept voting, expecting MLB to tell me that I ran out of votes, but they never did . . . So I stopped somewhere around 20 or 30. I'll do more today.

And it was all about Jeter.

I went for Hunter and Oswalt.

Edgy DC
Jul 06 2005 08:31 AM

]You know, guys, you're supposed to make the All-Star team every year.


Think of it then as them getting docked when they don't make it.

ABG
Jul 06 2005 10:05 AM

If Pedro pitches 1-2 innings in the ASG, when might he be pitching after the break?

I ask because I'm going to Friday night's game* and I'd love to not see Ishii every time.




*Thanks again, Soupy.

Yancy Street Gang
Jul 06 2005 10:08 AM

Pedro's starting on Sunday; at most he'd pitch one inning in the All-Star Game. It would be better, I think, if he didn't pitch at all.

metirish
Jul 06 2005 12:41 PM

The Home Run Derby should be a laugh this year,Comerica is a huge park, some of these "sluggers" might not reach the warning track..oh and it's Country V Country this year, no US player yet..

]The CENTURY 21 Home Run Derby (ESPN and ESPN Radio, Monday, July 11, 8 p.m. ET) will have an international flavor this year.

Hoping to kick off the countdown to next year's World Baseball Classic, the derby will feature players from different nations represented throughout Major League Baseball. Six out of eight participants have confirmed their spots, according to MLB.com.

According to the Web site Tuesday, the roster includes: Atlanta slugger and home run leader Andruw Jones, Philadelphia's Bobby Abreu, Milwaukee's Carlos Lee, Pittsburgh's Jason Bay, Detroit's Ivan Rodriguez and Boston's David Ortiz.

The Dominican Republic will be represented by Ortiz; Venezuela by Abreu, Puerto Rico by Rodriguez; Curacao by Jones; Panama by Lee; and Canada by Bay.

The only two countries not represented yet are the United States and Japan.

One player who won't represent the United States will be Chicago Cubs first baseman Derrek Lee, who declined an invitation because of a sore shoulder, MLB.com reported.

cooby
Jul 06 2005 12:55 PM

Charming plea recently submitted on our old, ezboard site. The poor guy must not have noticed the lack of activity, but what the heck, I'll post it here...


New York Mets fans, the Chicago White Sox would like you to help vote for Scott Podsednik. Why should you help us? If you do, one less Yankee will be on the roster for the All-Star game. Everyone hates the Yankees, together we can beat them. Thank You very much for your support. Go White Sox and Go Mets

Willets Point
Jul 06 2005 01:02 PM

Podsednik has taken the lead according to mlb.com. I put in a few more votes for him just in case.

cooby
Jul 06 2005 01:04 PM

This reminds me of when poor Annie asked us to sign her "SIGN WITH THE ASTROS, CARLOS" petition last year...

sharpie
Jul 06 2005 02:15 PM

Just voted a bunch of times for Podesdnik. Abandon hope, ye Torii Hunter voters, Scotty is who we must back.

Rotblatt
Jul 06 2005 02:41 PM

I'm down with that. Bu-bye, Derek!

metirish
Jul 06 2005 02:52 PM

I'm throwing my lot behind Posednik, MLB reporting he has passed Jete's...

ScarletKnight41
Jul 06 2005 08:49 PM

[url=http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050706&content_id=1118447&vkey=allstar2005&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb]Podsednik and Oswalt are in![/url]

And Captain Intangibles doesn't make the cut!

metirish
Jul 06 2005 10:35 PM

Karl Ravich on Baseball Tonight must be crying about the face of baseball not making the All-Star team, you know, things just won't be the same without DJ.

Rotblatt
Jul 06 2005 11:06 PM



Victory is ours!

Frayed Knot
Jul 06 2005 11:13 PM

If an All-Star game falls in the forest and Derek Jeter isn't there to save it, will it still register a TV rating?

SwitchHitter
Jul 06 2005 11:24 PM

cooby wrote:
This reminds me of when poor Annie asked us to sign her "SIGN WITH THE ASTROS, CARLOS" petition last year...


Hey, that worked out pretty well. He didn't go to the Yankees.

cooby
Jul 06 2005 11:31 PM

Yeah, and we got him, so you can still root for him :)

seawolf17
Jul 07 2005 09:04 AM

sharpie
Jul 07 2005 10:00 AM

Now we have to root for Podesdnik to do something great (steal 3 bases, make a great catch) to prove the wisdom of selecting him in and keeping Jeter out.

cooby
Jul 07 2005 10:03 AM

I can picture him puzzling over this sudden surge of votes...

Rotblatt
Jul 08 2005 07:50 AM

Piazza via Newsday: "This year, there's been debate whether I deserve to go. But if you look at all the numbers, to me, it's kind of like you have to knock out the champ."

He's got a point there. Paired with his "dying mule' comments, he's winning my support all over again . . .

seawolf17
Jul 08 2005 01:41 PM

From the Sports Guy:

]The Doctor J Award for "Guy who should always be in the All-Star Game no matter what kind of season he's having."

Look, you know I hate the Yankees. It's well-documented. But you can't have an All-Star Game without Jeter. You just can't. The NBA mentality should come into play here -- make sure your most visible stars are there on All-Star Weekend no matter how well they're playing. I always love when people get all holier-than-thou about picking an All-Star team, like anyone's going to remember in five years that Jose Guillen got shafted. Who cares?

The following guys should make the team every year unless they're trapped under something: Tejada, Guerrero, Manny, Jeter, A-Rod, Big Papi, Rivera, Clemens, Pedro, Ichiro, Schilling, Big Unit and Pujols. Those are the 13 biggest stars in baseball. You can't have the All-Star Game without any of them. Every December, we could even form a committee to determine if anyone from the Top 13 should lose their spot because they went Piazza on us, leaving us no choice but to take them off the list. And maybe next December, we could add a couple of guys who made The Leap -- like Mark Teixeira, Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis.

Of course, we have a better chance of dividing the Gaza Strip than coming up with a fool-proof All-Star selection method. Every time it seems like they're headed in the right direction, something happens like "Shea Hillenbrand over Derek Jeter" and it completely undermines the whole process. So why not protect the stars who absolutely have to be in the game? Do you really think the NBA would ever knock KG out of the 2006 All-Star Game, or the NFL would ever stand in Peyton Manning's way when he was gunning for yet another Pro Bowl MVP? Come on.

Edgy DC
Jul 08 2005 01:47 PM

"Every December, we could even form a committee to determine if anyone from the Top 13 should lose their spot because they went Piazza on us, leaving us no choice but to take them off the list."

I think we do. It's called an election. And even Piazza didn't really "go Piazza."

Bret Sabermetric
Jul 08 2005 01:57 PM

Edgy DC wrote:
"Every December, we could even form a committee to determine if anyone from the Top 13 should lose their spot because they went Piazza on us, leaving us no choice but to take them off the list."

I think we do. It's called an election. And even Piazza didn't really "go Piazza."


I'd love to hear your definition of what depths Piazza would have to sink to to have "gone Piazza." I'm pretty sure I'd find it--what was your word?-- "unlikely."

metsmarathon
Jul 08 2005 02:27 PM

well, seeing as he's still a hall of famer, first ballot, and is still the best-hitting catcher in the NL, and therefore seems to meet most people's all-star criteria (seeing as most people dont give enough credit to defense, except, you know, mets fans in relation to mike piazza and rey ordonez), he's still the best candidate for all-star status in the NL.

he's no longer a Star player, and he's no longer a feared hitter. but he's still a good-hitting catcher, and when you're the best hitting good-hitting catcher in a league, you tend to find your way onto an all star roster.

now, of course, if you wanted to be fair, and select who actually is the best catcher in the league, then you'd have to give brian schneider the nod, as he's basically on a par with piazza offensively based on year-to-date production, and is reportedly one of the better defensive catchers in the league.

Rotblatt
Jul 08 2005 02:40 PM

Jeter's only being talked about so much because he's been so overexposed the past bizillion years. He barely cracks the top 5 SS in the AL this year: Tejada (.965 OPS), Young (.885, and nice H/A splits for those of you TX detractors), Peralta (.875) & Guillen (.852) all have better numbers than Jeter (.846 OPS), although Peralta & Guillen have missed a couple games . . . Even figuring you want more than 259 PAs to qualify, Jeter's a distant third to Tejeda & Young.

The bigger story in the AL is Hafner, who has the best 1B OPS of any 1B with more than 200 AB, and it's not even close.

metirish
Jul 08 2005 10:48 PM

Some guy named Elliott Kalb from FOXSports.com says these are the worst All-Stars ever.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3741458?GT1=6667

Here are ten players that definitely weren't stars, but still played in the Mid-Summer Classic.


1. 2005, Brian Fuentes, Colorado


This choice kills me. Fuentes has won one game this year, and saved ten others for Colorado. Is this what Arch Ward had in mind when he proposed the idea of an All-Star game? Bring back Earl Weaver who, as American League manager in 1972, named all starters to the All-Star team. Give any manager in baseball a choice between Mark Mulder and Brian Fuentes. I'd rather see Tom Glavine or Greg Maddux. With your life on the line, you would rather depend on Maddux, right?


2. 1968, Duane Josephson, Chicago White Sox
The late Duane Josephson was a bad catcher on a bad team. Did the American League need a catcher? Well, they had two other backstops on the squad Detroit's Bill Freehan and the Indians' Joe Azcue. Did the White Sox have another rep? Yes, they had pitcher Tommy John on the squad. Josephson, in the only season he would exceed 306 at-bats, batted .247 with six home runs in 1968. His 18 walks gave him an on-base average of .284.


3. 1974, Dave Chalk, California Angels
Chalk was a 23-year old infielder, who batted .252 with a .316 slugging average in his All-Star season. He played on a 68-win last place team, which had ace Nolan Ryan already representing the AL. Was the American League that desperate for infielders? Bert Campaneris played the entire game at shortstop while Chalk had an at-bat and got into the game at third base after Brooks Robinson had been pinch-hit for. Look, George Brett, in his first full season, was hitting only around .200 in 200 at-bats by the All Star game. But the Rangers' Toby Harrah was in the middle of a 21-home run season.


4. 1944, Thurman Tucker, Chicago White Sox
I know what you're thinking. With a name like that, he has to be good. Tucker had a lifetime average of .255. This leadoff man stole 13 bases (he was caught 12 times) in his All-Star season. He led off for the American League and played the entire game. He went hitless in four at-bats. Of course, this was during World War II. Joe DiMaggio lost the year to military service. Dom DiMaggio lost the year. Ted Williams lost the year.


5. 1984, Alfredo Griffin, Toronto Blue Jays
Cal Ripken Jr. started the game for the American League at shortstop. The Tigers' Alan Trammell was named to the team, but was injured. Alfredo Griffin actually got into the game at shortstop. Alfredo batted a robust .241 that season. He walked four times in 140 games and had 14 extra-base hits. His on-base average was .248. His slugging average was .298. He was an All-Star shortstop while the Brewers' Robin Yount (50 extra-base hits, .441 slugging average) stayed home. Yount only made three All-Star game appearances in his 20 year career. How could people recognize Griffin and ignore Yount?

6. 2003, Mike Williams, Pittsburgh Pirates
Here's one more example of a reliever who compiles saves (even bad teams win games, and someone has to pitch the last inning) and is considered an All Star. It's a dumb rule to have to have a representative from every team. Tell me which Pittsburgh fan is going to not watch the game because there isn't a Pirate involved. As it was, seven NL pitchers appeared in the game. Williams was not one of them.


7. 1976, Steve Swisher, Chicago Cubs
This catcher had some amazing numbers. He was a lifetime .216 batter, playing in only 509 games. His career season came in 1976 when he batted .236 with five homers and 42 RBI. For this, he earned a trip to the All-Star game. The Cubs had no other representatives that season. Not that Swisher appeared in the game. Johnny Bench started, and Bob Boone was the backup. But Swisher's roster spot could have been filled by more productive hitters like Ted Simmons or Manny Sanguillen.


8. 1987, Jay Howell, Oakland A's
This is a case where Howell genuinely had some seasons worthy of All-Star status. He deservedly made two other All-Star games. But in 1987 he was suffering through a season where he finished with a 5.89 ERA and lost his closer's job to first-year reliever Dennis Eckersley. Howell was the losing pitcher of the 1987 All-Star game, a 2-0 extra-inning contest in which Howell was the only pitcher on either side to give up a run.


9. 1996, Roger Pavlik, Texas Rangers
Here's a case where a 10-1 record is deceiving; that's what Pavlik had when he was selected for the 1996 game. He was 36-38 the rest of his major league career. He went 5-7 the remainder of the 1996 season and didn't last three innings in his lone postseason start. Even the 10-1 start was muddied by his very high earned run average.


10. 1946, Ray Lamanno, Cincinnati Reds
You've heard of Ray Romano. This is Ray Lamanno. If those two ever boxed, it would be billed Romano versus Lamanno Mano a Mano. There are tons of bad-hitting catchers who've made the All-Star team (Biff Pocoroba, Sandy Alomar, Jr., Bruce Edwards, etc) but I liked the name Lamanno. If you're interested, he grounded out as a pinch-hitter. He showed promise, hitting 12 home runs as a 22-year old in 1942. He then lost three years to World War II. He made the All-Star team in 1946, despite an average of just .243 and played only two more seasons.

Elster88
Jul 09 2005 04:48 PM

]Give any manager in baseball a choice between Mark Mulder and Brian Fuentes. I'd rather see Tom Glavine or Greg Maddux. With your life on the line, you would rather depend on Maddux, right?
I agree 100 percent. The only way a closer should make an all-star team is if he's having in the midst of a 60+ saves converted streak. That way he can give up the winning run in the ninth.

metsmarathon
Jul 09 2005 05:34 PM

the problem with brian fuentes is... who else on the rockies is worth a darn?

their catchers are nothing to speak of
helton is no better than the 4th best 1B in the league
their 2B's are pitiable
their 3B is no better than the 7th best in the league
clint barmes had to go carrying deer meat, otherwise he'd actually be a good candidate at SS
and in the outfield, only preston wilson is in the top 10 offensively for the respective position.

jeff francis is their only starter with a winning record, at 8-5, but he's got a 4.74 ERA. oddly, he has a 3.18 HOME ERA, and 6.34 on the road. how the hell does he manage that!?

and in the pen, you've got brian fuentes, who has 6 holds, 11 saves, and only 2 blown saves and a 2.48 ERA, and jay witasick with 10 holds and 1 blown save and an ERA of 2.60

of all teh relievers with at least as many save opportunities as fuentes, only 5 have better ERA's, and he does it in Coors.

so that's about as weak a justification for him as i can come up with.

and there ya have it.
either brian fuentes, jeff francis, or todd helton is your colorado representative this year.

boy do they suck.

metirish
Jul 11 2005 10:47 AM

Scott Rolen pulls out to rest his shoulder, replaced by Ensberg.

Edgy DC
Jul 11 2005 11:01 AM

Who's going to pull out and give Cliffy a spot?

seawolf17
Jul 11 2005 11:07 AM

Come on, Carlos. Do the right thing.

sharpie
Jul 11 2005 11:10 AM

Closers are often the selection for bad teams. Mike Williams or Brian Fuentes have decent numbers, give them a spot seems to be the reasoning when often they are far from tbe best closers. Remember, a few years back on a bad Mets team Armando was the only pick. Actually, I think it safe to say that if your closer is your only All-Star, your team is really bad.