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Johnny Dickshot
Jun 29 2005 07:00 AM



I gotta say as good as he is I want no part of Sheffield.

Edgy DC
Jun 29 2005 07:27 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2005 09:20 AM

Let's do as we did at the MOFo and fill 20 pages of speculation on Chef.

I've got to say, they're showing more respect. In February or something, it was Tanyon Sturtze that the Mets were supposed to be sending Cammie over for.

Rotblatt
Jun 29 2005 07:30 AM

Here's the link: http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/25568.htm

And I agree; I don't like this alleged deal. Sheff's a great player, but he's old and overpriced. This article also speculates that we'd have to give up someone like Cairo and a "young pitcher." Unless we stretch the definition of young pitcher to include Glavine (he IS younger than the Big Unit, after all), I'm not interested.

We'd be crazy to take on $22M while giving up Cam AND two solid players for Sheffield . . .

MFS62
Jun 29 2005 07:49 AM

Since its the NY Post, I immediately cut and pasted that link to the bottom of my birdcage before I read it.
Just curious, was it written by the Yankee or the Met beat reporter?

Later

sharpie
Jun 29 2005 09:00 AM

I refuse to "register" for the Post.

In today's NY Times Sheffield is quoted as saying that he won't play for another team if traded.

holychicken
Jun 29 2005 09:03 AM

]The Yanks would have to get additional players to balance a deal. They talked to the Mets earlier in the season about reacquiring Miguel Cairo and also would have interest in a young Met pitcher.


Why does the deal need to be balanced? I think the MFY need to make this trade more than the Mets. MAYBE one other player, but considering Cameron's defense, the position he plays, the salary differential and the numbers he put up last year and this year, I think straight up is a good swap. I wouldn't be too dissappointed to watch Cairo go as well, certainly there would have to be some salary compensation at that point, but if a young decent/good pitcher goes instead or, god forbid, goes WITH Cairo, it is not worth it.

We have a similar problem where we need to stay young. . . certainly, the yanks are in more dire straights in that regards. . . but there is no way I would want to end up anything like them.

soupcan
Jun 29 2005 09:04 AM

Joel Sherman who, if I read between the lines correctly in many of his columns, seems to be a Mets fan.

I don't like this deal either. The Mets are a .500 team this year. No need to be trading Cammie and a 'young pitcher' for a malcontent like Sheffield.

They need more than a bat this year and if we are trying to build a foundation for a string of successful years, trading young pitchers for aging, overpriced sluggers doesn't seem to be the smartest route to go.

Next year or the year after if the Mets are one big bat away then this deal has my blessing. This year though I'd like to let this team gel, play together, get used to one another and learn how to win together. Cammie's got to be a positive influence on young guys like Reyes, Wright and Diaz.

I hope this is all just about selling papers. I'd lose a lot of respect for Omar and his philosophies of team building if he pulled the trigger on something like this.

Johnny Dickshot
Jun 29 2005 09:06 AM

Joel Sherman.

Elsewhere on the Internet, there's discussion of a complex MFY WATP that somehow nets the MFYs Cuddyer & Urbina, while they give up Quantrill, 3B prospect Duncan and move Gayrod to SS and Jeter to CF.San Diego and Philly are also involved. I'm sure it's just a fantasy.

soupcan
Jun 29 2005 09:07 AM

Jeter to CF?

HA!

His ego would never allow it.

metirish
Jun 29 2005 09:40 AM

No way to this deal, I'm opposed to anything that helps that team, I know being a good guy like Cameron doesn't count for wins and loses but I hope we keep this guy, for those who watched the game last night you might remember the group of kids Matt Loughlin interviewed from the Starlight Children's Foundation, Mike is involved in that and does great work for them, a local kid from here got his wish last night...

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050629/NEWS02/506290359/1017

Edgy DC
Jun 29 2005 09:46 AM

Cammie was donates money for each catch he makes. Hopefully, he squeezed some money out of the Mets and Beltran for the money they lose when he switched positions.

]...but considering Cameron's defense, the position he plays, the salary differential and the numbers he put up last year and this year, I think straight up is a good swap.


Considering Sheffield's age, steroid usage, and unpopularity in my head, I think I don't want to touch it.

smg58
Jun 29 2005 09:50 AM

Jeter to CF? Somebody gets points for being creative.

How about Cameron and Matsui for Sheffield? Not sure why the Yankees would do that, but one can hope...

I get the sense that the deal has actually been discussed. I guess it depends on what the "and" in "Cameron and..." turns out to be. Sheffield would be an upgrade on offense, and we shouldn't ignore that part. The problem for me would have more to do with payroll; we'd be adding $5M (for next year) at a position I would have expected to be subtracting $8M. Plus they would be forced to deal Diaz, or keep him buried until his confidence and/or market value vanishes.

I'm never clear on what the Mets' spending limit is, so it's difficult to say how much of a bind this would put the Mets in for filling the remainder of their needs for next year.

Johnny Dickshot
Jun 29 2005 09:55 AM

Unless it was clear that who we received for Cameron in a trade is a backboard-shattering chocolate thunder slam dunk to improve this team next year it shouldn't happen.

Sheff is 39 friggin years old!!!! Plus, he's pretty much a jerk. Plus Cameron helps the MFYs too much this year. And why on earth should we give them any more? They're the team that desperately needs a CF. And I mean, desperately.

No No No.

seawolf17
Jun 29 2005 09:55 AM

I don't want Sheffield either, but boy, when you look at the numbers... a bat like that would like nice in the center of this lineup. I just want the bat to be held by a different guy.

soupcan
Jun 29 2005 10:01 AM

seawolf17 wrote:
I don't want Sheffield either, but boy, when you look at the numbers... a bat like that would like nice in the center of this lineup. I just want the bat to be held by a different guy.


Yeah sure his bat would be great in this lineup this year.

Again though the Mets are more than Sheffield's bat away from winning this year. And then we'd be stuck with him next year when he'd be 40, making $13 mil and whining.

A move like this flies in the face of 'being ptaient and building a winning organization'.

Don't like it, don't want it.

seawolf17
Jun 29 2005 10:04 AM

That's why I added the caveat at the end. Like I said... I don't want him; I want someone with his bat.

Rotblatt
Jun 29 2005 10:05 AM

That's pretty close to the Platonic idea of the WATP . . . It's got multiple teams involved, superstars involved (even though they stay on the same team), doesn't help any of the teams significantly, and has pretty much no chance of happening.

The Yankees would improve their defense overall, assuming that Jeter adjusts to CF, but it doesn't look to me like Cuddyer's too likely to put up 3B-caliber numbers offensively, and he seems shaky defensively as well. The biggest benefit would be getting Womack out of the lineup.

The Phillies would give up a good but struggling reliever for an old, formerly good and struggling reliever--presumably all for $1M, which strikes me as the second-most unlikely part of the deal (the first being Jeter moving to CF).

The Twins would net a good prospect but lose their best option at 3B (at least until Williams gets off the DL).

I just don't see it happening . . .

soupcan
Jun 29 2005 10:06 AM

Just agreeing with ya wolfie.

Rotblatt
Jun 29 2005 10:14 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2005 10:17 AM

]a bat like that would like nice in the center of this lineup.


We already have a bat like that in our lineup.

2005 OPS for Sheff: .898 (Career .927)
2005 OPS for Cam: .935 (Career: .786)

We all know that Cam isn't going to stay this hot, but it's not like Sheff's a bonafide lock either. At 36, how long can he stay productive and healthy? Is the upgrade offensively worth an additional $22M? Do we really want a fuck-nut like Sheffield (who apparently has said that he "won't play" for another team if he gets traded) anywhere near our team? Especially when he's not likely to bring us to the post-season?

I mean, the best we can hope for is for Sheff to hit like Cameron has so far this year. WITH Cameron hitting as well as he has, we're still only at .500. That means even if Sheff performs to expectations, we still need other players to step up if we want to go to the play-offs. Sheff is NOT the missing link for us.

on edit: Now maybe if he played first base . . . Then we could slide Diaz and his 817 OPS into right and get a nice upgrade offensively.

holychicken
Jun 29 2005 10:15 AM

]Considering Sheffield's age, steroid usage, and unpopularity in my head, I think I don't want to touch it.


Personally, I am more turned off by that annoying bat wiggle.

That being said, I think it is a bad idea to run a team based on a player's "popularity in my head." Although, certainly club house attitude is important.

My post was more of a criticism of the claim by the "writer" that Sheffield is somehow worth more to the Mets than Cameron is to the MFY, so for the trade to happen, the Mets would have to throw in a lot more.

Spacemans Bong
Jun 29 2005 10:20 AM

Interestink.

Edgy DC
Jun 29 2005 11:26 AM

I've got no problem with a team staying away from players that I don't like.

I usually have sound reasons.

ScarletKnight41
Jun 29 2005 11:34 AM

Do we really want this kind of thing on the field at Shea?




I don't think so.

PatchyFogg
Jun 29 2005 11:48 AM

Did Sheffield the Agent forget to negotiate a No-Trade? Or, does he have one, and this speculation is nonsense? If he forgot to get a no-trade, I am forced to quote the Nanny, "Oh, Mistahh Sheffield"

smg58
Jun 29 2005 11:48 AM

I'd throw in Glavine and make the MFY's throw in a younger player. Then we're the ones freeing payroll, Heilman in the rotation wouldn't hurt us, Padilla finally gets up here, and the freed money plus Diaz puts us in better dealing position than we are in right now.

Rotblatt
Jun 29 2005 12:19 PM
Bergen Record Sells Some Papers Too

Bergen Record Horns In On Post's Action--Klapisch

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY3MTQ0NDcmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

They indicate the Mets are on board with the deal (Cairo + Cameron = Sheffield) and are merely waiting on the Yankees. They also speculate that the Yankees would throw in money to offset the salaries.

I'll be unhappy with this deal if it goes down. Can't we get younger than Sheffield? And shouldn't we be trying to get a 1B instead of a RF?

On edit: Why not Hideki instead? And maybe we pay for the difference between Cairo + Cameron's salary and Matsui . . . And give them Glavine for free (we pick up the remainder of Glavine's contract)?

Edgy DC
Jun 29 2005 12:41 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2005 12:54 PM

The Yanks have a lot invested in Irabu as a foreign revenue source.

Also, he's not part of the story the newsfaces are trying to write.

I mean Cairo -- they keep banging on the idea that the Yanks are kicking themselves that they fumbled him away. As if his reacquisition would do anything to right the ship.

So, lemme get this straight, the Mets should be burying Matsui behind Cairo, but also giving Cairo up as a throw-in to the Yanks.

The Mets should be dealing to acquire Cano to play second, but the Yanks should be dealing to acquire Cairo to displace Cano.

Cairo's hurt and undealable, anywise.

seawolf17
Jun 29 2005 12:43 PM

I'd take Matsui, but he's not much defensively, and he's not a right fielder. Unless you think Floyd has some value and is worth dealing, I don't know if Matsui is a fit.

Johnny Dickshot
Jun 29 2005 12:45 PM

Cairo's eligible to return from the DL today or tommorrow I believe.

Matsui as I've said a billion times makes a lot more sense in that if we can re-sign him (big if) he's likely to give us more going forward. The fact is, the MFYs need Cameron bad enough so that Cashman ought to be the one bending over.

Centerfield
Jun 29 2005 01:19 PM

Wow, Klapisch's article makes it sound as if the trade talks are much further along than the Post article.

How funny would that be? If we get Sheff, we get every member of that Marlins-Dodgers blockbuster trade in '98.

Edgy DC
Jun 29 2005 01:23 PM

Not quite.

Jim Eisenreich would have to come out of retirement at a Mike Bishop-y 46 years old.

Centerfield
Jun 29 2005 01:33 PM

You're right. I completely forgot that Charles Johnson, Jim Eisenreich and Manny Barrios were a part of that trade.

Actually, it's not that I forgot, I don't think I ever knew that until I looked it up just now.

Edgy DC
Jun 29 2005 01:38 PM

Well, CJ was a Met on paper for 15 minutes, so he could count. I don't know nuttin' 'bout no Manny Barrios. It sounds like gay cruising area near Washington Heights.

Willets Point
Jun 29 2005 02:24 PM

Don't, don't, don't believe the hype, says Newsday.

Yancy Street Gang
Jun 29 2005 02:37 PM

The Mets, too, have reportedly resisted any trades including prospects Lastings Milledge, Yusmeiro Petit, and Phillip Humber, one or two of whom might have to be included in any deal for Sheffield and a reliever.

I like the sound of that. Hope it's true.


And let's be honest -- it wouldn't be the first time the Post blew a trade story out of proportion, would it?

Wow! Newsday talkin' trash about the Post. I don't think I've ever seen that before.

rpackrat
Jun 29 2005 02:38 PM

What do the MFY's have that Oakland would want? I don't see a Kotsay trade happening.

Sandgnat
Jun 29 2005 03:17 PM

The Newsday article sounds a lot more like a chance to flame a rival then it does to dispel the trade rumor with solid fact.

Frayed Knot
Jun 29 2005 03:37 PM

Newsday: The Mets, too, have reportedly resisted any trades
including prospects Lastings Milledge, Yusmeiro Petit, and Phillip
Humber, one or two of whom might have to be included in any deal
for Sheffield and a reliever.


If it were Cammy for Sheff even-up you'd have to pull the trigger just
from a talent swap basis alone. It's a major upgrade in offense even
though Sheff is one of my least favorite players alive.
But when you start talking about major prospects as throw-ins it
makes it easy to just walk away.
And, as mentioned above, we don't HAVE to do a deal for an OFer,
the Yanx do - although it's still a weird deal from their side. With
Sheff gone, who plays RF? Bernie in LF and Hidecki in RF?
That doesn't help much. They need to move Bernie to DH and
Womack and his .270 Slugging Avg!! to ... I dunno, Mars?

Rotblatt
Jun 29 2005 04:37 PM

I don't think Bernie would be so bad in LF . . . And Hideki used to play RF in Japan, I think, so he'd probably be passable there. Their OF defense wouldn't be good, but it probably wouldn't be awful, either--especially with Cam in center.

If they're after Cairo, I wonder if they're planning on moving Cano somewhere. You'd think it'd be for pitching, but it could be for a corner OF . . .

Rotblatt
Jun 29 2005 04:47 PM

Cribbing from SoSH poster jtn46, who listened to Sheff spout off on theFAN:

]Sheffield sound on WFAN.

Basically saying that if he's traded somewhere, he'll play there. He says he went out of his way to sign with the Yankees and wants to remain there, and if he's traded, he'll be unhappy, and he says no team would want an unhappy Gary Sheffield. He suggests that his new team would have to do something to make him happy, and he very much suggested that the thing they would have to do is pay him the money he's owed up-front, since he says he allowed the Yankees to defer a lot of his salary to ensure that he could sign there. Obviously there's a lot of funny stuff he's saying, (Says he brings intensity, leadership, and that he's not paid for that...) but it all seems like a contrived way to scare the Mets away.


Boo, I say, boo.

Don't need him, don't want him.

When do I get to start reading about Adam Dunn to Mets rumors?

seawolf17
Jun 29 2005 04:57 PM

You know? I thought about this in the car today. I want nothing to do with Gary Sheffield. It's bad enough that I have to root for Tom &#@$ Glavine. Why don't they trade David Wright for Chipper! Deal Reyes for Jeter! Hire John Tudor and Bobby Bonilla as coaches! Make my freaking head explode, Omar! Come on, big guy! Do you want to make us hate this team?

MFS62
Jun 29 2005 06:47 PM

Speaking of in the car, I was driving home today and a Yankee fan called in to one of the shows (forget whether it was WFAN or ESPN) and said "If the Mets want Sheffield, they would have to include either Reyes or Wright with Cameron". He may have said both. And he was SERIOUS.
I almost drove off the road.

Incidentally, both Met and Yankee fans think this isn't a good deal for their team. That makes me think it still may happen.

Later

seawolf17
Jun 29 2005 06:51 PM

Since Rotblatt's had so much luck with Willie lately, can we ask him to post against any Sheffield trade?

Spacemans Bong
Jun 29 2005 07:03 PM

MFS62 wrote:
Speaking of in the car, I was driving home today and a Yankee fan called in to one of the shows (forget whether it was WFAN or ESPN) and said "If the Mets want Sheffield, they would have to include either Reyes or Wright with Cameron". He may have said both. And he was SERIOUS.
I almost drove off the road.

Incidentally, both Met and Yankee fans think this isn't a good deal for their team. That makes me think it still may happen.

Later

That's probably a good indication that it's a fair trade.

I wouldn't mind seeing Sheffield on the Mets. Besides the fact it's really not a good deal for the Yanks in my opinion, it's getting a guy who would be the best hitter on the club for the best 2 months of Mike Cameron's career. You'd punt some defense, but gain a big big bat. You'd also get a pretty short commitment period. Sheffield's only signed through 2006, so there's really no chance of this being an albatross.

metsmarathon
Jun 29 2005 07:52 PM

prior to sheffields midafternoon vocal diahrrea, i considered this a fair trade on paper with the mets gaining the bat they need to really add credibility and depth to their lineup while giving up outfield defense that they have plenty of. on the yankees end it seems like they're not making out as well, as while cammy does provide a huge benefit defensively, trading him straightup for sheff doesnt prevent tony womack from taking an outfield spot.

then i read/heard about the inclusion of cairo in the deal, which makes me like it less, as i consider him a valuale part of our bench, and tipping the scales to the yankees favor in terms of fairness of trade.

then there are the stories of the mets getting fleeced for cammy, diaz, and maybe even a pitcher or something, for sheff and womack. and, while this makes for a much better trade for the yankees, it makes for a much worse trade for the mets.

and then of course theres the fact that, and lets just pretend its a straight up, or cammy+cairo deal, a) while i hate facing him, i don't like sheffield either, and even happy, he'd ruin the chemistry by taking away at least as much as cammy added, b) his verbal diahreea cinches teh bad chemistry thingy, and makes this trade extremely distasteful on that level alone, c) if we're trading cammy, i'd prefer that it be for a 1b, opening a slot for diaz in the outfield and improving teh club twofold, d) i really really like our outfield defense, and while the additional offense is noce, the outfield D actually gives me joy - gary sheffields glove would do no such thing e) it'd be a no-win situation as the papers would invartiably find a way to pan the mets' side of things, unless by some miracle, sheff managed to drive home the winning run in game 7 of the WS f) have i mentioned his verbal diahrrea? cos i think it was just his head spilling over.

i'd much rather go to war with this team as constructed, than with this team reconstructed so as to include gary sheffield.

silverdsl
Jun 29 2005 08:45 PM

As a player Sheffield would probably be an asset to the Mets. He's solid at the plate, usually pretty productive and aside from some moments when he doesn't give it his all he's usually good in the outfield.

However, Sheffield is the Captain of the A$$hats. As per this article on ESPN: [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2097445]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2097445[/url], Sheffield essentially says that if he's traded he will inconvience everyone and behave in such a way that his new team would want to get rid of him. I have no respect for a player who would be disruptive like that. Yankee fans are trying to excuse his comments by saying it's because he wants to be a Yankee so much but I don't think there's any justification for behavior like that should he be traded. No other player without a no-trade gets much of a say if/when/where they are traded why should Sheffield? But it's not just these most recent remarks that make Sheffield an a$$hat. It's also how he "accidentally" took steroids and how he said that those who use mental coachs are "weak-minded, among other things. Sheffield is rapidly becoming my least favorite recent Yankee, next to Chuck Knoblauch and Roger Clemens.

Frayed Knot
Jun 29 2005 11:04 PM

I heard a chunk of Sheffield's rantings today.
Basically he was rambling, angry, egotistical, threatening, illogical -- and that's while he wasn't being largely incoherant.

Mostly he wants money. He "made sacrifices" to sign w/his beloved Yanx by agreeing to defer money while all those around him are making much more and getting it all up front while - in some cases (and it sounded like he REALLY wanted to name names cough*Giambi*cough) - he's producing as much or more than all of them.
So, he'll agree to go wherever he's sent (like he has a choice) but he wants the new team to sweeten the pot (which he has no power to force) and he doesn't promise to be a pleasant person.

Minaya, meanwhile, has apparently denied there's anything going on.

metirish
Jun 29 2005 11:07 PM

I wanted nothing to do with Sheffield when this was first posted and after hearing his tirade just now on MSG I want less to do with him, it was something else, as frayed Knot said he was a rambling man.

Rockin' Doc
Jun 29 2005 11:35 PM
Omar, Just Say no!

Let Sheffield stay with his beloved Yankees. I sure as hell don't want him on The Mets.

Cameron is having a fine year for the Mets. He has been hitting well, playing solid defense in RF, is our best insurance policy for CF should something happen to Beltran, and he plays hard without complaining. Sheffield is an offensive force that promises to be a royal pain in the ass to any team that trades for him. This is the same guy who has stated that he sometimes made errors on purpose when he was with the Brewers because he didn't want to play for them.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather the Mets just keep Cameron.

Rotblatt
Jun 30 2005 10:09 AM

I'm not going to waste my Willie mo-jo on this . . . Hopefully any possibility of this happening was squashed by Sheff's ranting.

Dunn is being shopped, by the way. More on that in the A-P Trade Thread.

duan
Jun 30 2005 10:27 AM

thin about sheff's ranting is he's got one reason for it, and that's to try and squeeze some $ out of someone. That's his form, that's what he does.

If le boss/omar sweetend the deal with money, he'd be up for it. If he wasn't going on 37 i'd be very tempted, but right now, I just don't dare rely on him to be productive for much longer.

Frayed Knot
Jun 30 2005 02:19 PM

A story in [url=http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2005/06/30/w5c_marlnotes_0630.html]The Palm Beach Post[/url]
suggests that the Marlins may have interest in Sheffield in exchange for OFer Juan Encarnacion & RHP A.J. Burnett "according to a National League source".

"An American League source confirmed that the Yankees are interested in Burnett and Encarnacion and have talked to the Marlins about them. But that source also said connecting Sheffield to the discussions "might be premature."

Frayed Knot
Jun 30 2005 04:22 PM

In the meantime, Sheffield is getting a 2-day vacation for his antics in Sunday night's game courtesy of the MLB office.

soupcan
Jun 30 2005 04:35 PM

Am I the only one who thinks that Gary Sheffield and Carl Everett would get along very well?

Rockin' Doc
Jul 03 2005 07:42 AM

I doubt it Soup, Carl probably doesn't believe that Sheffield exists.

MFS62
Jul 03 2005 09:46 AM

Ding! Ding!

We have a winner.

Doc, that may have been the best one-liner yet on the new board.

Later