Forum Home

Master Index of Archived Threads

KTE - Seattle Mariners of the AL West.

Jun 17 2005 11:10 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 17 2005 11:52 AM

The NY Mets(33-33) make a first ever visit to Seattle(28-36) and beautiful Safeco Field.The Mariner fans will welcome back Mike Cameron as he was a firm favorite after getting traded to Seattle in the Griffey Jr. deal.


Friday, June 17 - 7:05PM (PT)

Kazuhisa Ishii, LHP (1-5, 5.48)
Scouting Report:
The 32-year-old lefty struck out a season-high nine batters in his last start, but he also gave up five runs in 5 2/3 innings on six hits and a pair of walks. Even though his lone win this year came on the road, Ishii has struggled away from Shea: His home ERA is 3.91, while on the road it's 7.25.

Jamie Moyer, LHP (5-2, 4.90)
Moyer took a hard-luck no-decision in his last game, an eventual 2-1 Mariners loss to the Washington Nationals, despite pitching six innings and giving up one run while striking out four. The 42-year-old left-hander has turned in quality starts -- six or more innings, three earned runs or less -- in each of his last four outings to lower his ERA from 6.11 to 4.90.

Saturday - June 18th - 7:05PM - (PT)

Pedro Martinez, RHP (7-1, 2.56)
Scouting Report:
After carrying a no-hitter into the seventh on June 7 against the Astros, the Mets ace was a little off form in his most recent start, giving up three runs on six hits over seven innings while walking four and striking out three. Martinez twice beat the A's while with Boston last year, giving up just two earned runs on seven hits in 13 innings while walking four and fanning 13.

Ryan Franklin (2-8, 2.41)

Sunday June 19th - 1:05PM - (PT)

Tom Glavine, LHP (4-6, 4.55)
Scouting Report:
Glavine allowed 10 hits or more for the third time all season in his last start, but he was still effective and allowed just three earned runs. The Mets, however, were shut out by the Oakland Athletics. Glavine is 3-2 with a 2.72 ERA over his last seven starts. The Mariners become the 27th different team against whom Glavine has started in his career.

Gil Meche 6-4 - 4.38

Seattle notes

Aaron Sele improved his interleague record to 18-7 and tied future Hall of Fame right-hander Greg Maddux for the most Interleague wins.

Who's injured

Seattle has 10 players on the DL, a few names you know.
5/15/05 Wiki Gonzalez Placed on the 15-day disabled list with a strained hamstring.

5/4/05 Pokey Reese Transferred from the 15-day disabled list to the 60-day DL.

4/20/05 Scott Spiezio Placed on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to April 19, with a strained left oblique.

The Mets have a bunch of players injured but they are not all on the DL, way to go Cameron, Matsui and Beltran for fighting through the pain.

Mariners Broadcasters
Dave Niehaus, Rick Rizzs, Ron Fairly, Dave Henderson, Dave Valle, Jay Buhner
Neihaus has been with the Team forever.

Seattle Mariners trivia

Mariners commercials -(thanks IP for the idea)

Funky Seattle logos




Yancy Street Gang
Jun 17 2005 11:19 AM

Nothing even approaching a blockbuster in this list. The most significant moves are the loss of Olerud and the acquistition of Cameron.

Trades between the Mets and the Seattle Mariners

  • New York Mets purchased Doc Medich from the Seattle Mariners on September 26, 1977.

  • New York Mets selected Rick Baldwin in free agent draft on December 5, 1977.

  • New York Mets sold Wayne Twitchell to the Seattle Mariners on August 19, 1979.

  • New York Mets traded Gene Walter to the Seattle Mariners for Edwin Nunez on July 11, 1988.

  • New York Mets traded Reggie Dobie to the Seattle Mariners for Chuck Carr on November 20, 1988.

  • New York Mets traded Brian Givens to the Seattle Mariners for Mario Diaz on June 19, 1990.

  • Seattle Mariners signed Mackey Sasser of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 23, 1992.

  • Seattle Mariners claimed Eric Gunderson of the New York Mets on waivers on August 4, 1995.

  • New York Mets traded Blas Minor to the Seattle Mariners for Randy Vickers on June 9, 1996.

  • Seattle Mariners signed Brent Mayne of the New York Mets as a free agent on January 19, 1997.

  • New York Mets traded Lindsay Gulin to the Seattle Mariners for Rick Wilkins on May 12, 1998.

  • New York Mets traded Butch Huskey to the Seattle Mariners for Lesli Brea on December 4, 1998.

  • New York Mets traded Allen Watson to the Seattle Mariners for Justin Dunning and Mac Suzuki on June 18, 1999.

  • Seattle Mariners signed John Olerud of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 7, 1999.

  • New York Mets signed free agent Mike Cameron of the Seattle Mariners on December 18, 2003.

Willets Point
Jun 17 2005 11:34 AM

The trade of Butch Huskey, a dark, dark day.

Johnny Dickshot
Jun 17 2005 11:49 AM

Nice job.

Wow, the Mets and Mariners have never made a truly meaningful trade.

Papers say Ryan Franklin (2-8, 2.41) opposes Pedro Saturday and RHP Gil Meche (6-4, 4.38) v. Glavine Sunday

Ichiro is slumping, as detailed in this excellent, informative article:


Off the Wall: Is something wrong with Ichiro?

Thursday, June 16, 2005


Ichiro's batting average has dropped below .300, and many fans are wondering if it's time to be concerned. Because Ichiro doesn't hit many home runs, like an average right fielder, and doesn't take a lot of walks (without which he can't steal as many bases), he's only helping the team defensively without a high batting average.

As I write this before Wednesday's game, Ichiro is 5-for-28 in his last seven games (.179) -- and that's an improvement for this month. His monthly averages are almost as disturbing, seemingly showing a terrible drop-off in his game:

April: .356 (36-for-101)
May: .288 (32-for-111)
June: .174 (8-for-46)

Ichiro has had bad months before in his major league career. In April 2004, he hit .255, and in June, .274. In 2003, he seemed to wear down badly at the end of the season, hitting .242 in August and .273 in September.

There are a couple obvious theories as to why this has happened. He may be tired, to name the most obvious. Manager Mike Hargrove hasn't given Ichiro a day off yet this season (also true for Randy Winn and Raul Ibanez). I know Ichiro's a gamer and all, but it would seem like a day off couldn't make things worse.

Statistically, it's hard to find anything telling. Ichiro's stats are down a little in day games but way down in night games. Sometimes that's a sign of vision problems -- picking up the ball in the artificial light -- and can be solved by contact lenses, but I have a hard time believing Ichiro's problems are related to his eyes.

He's not hitting nearly as well this year with runners on base. Of course, it's not as if the bottom of this year's lineup has given him a lot of chances. Still, Ichiro's enjoyed a deserved reputation as a fearsome hitter with men on, as a hitter who can slap the ball into the holes created when fielders cover their bases instead of playing in their natural fielding positions. This year, he hasn't done that at all:

No one on: .376 in 476 at-bats
Runners on: .364 in 228 at-bats

No one on: .339 in 174 at-bats
Runners on: .200 in 80 at-bats

The problem with getting into this kind of deli-slicing of statistics is the size of the sample. The smaller the comparison, the less sure we can be about our conclusions.

For instance, I had a quarter on my desk (a 1988, which makes it only slightly younger than Mariners pitching phenom Felix Hernandez).

In flips 1-2: tails 100% of the time
In flips 3-4: heads 100% of the time

You can see where the problem is: the coin can be in perfect shape, flipping it a 50/50 proposition, but in a small enough carving, it looks like the coin is ice cold and then red hot. But it's no more or less likely to come up heads or tails after it comes up heads twice.

Sample size may provide some insight into Ichiro's perceived struggles, as it turns out.

Assume that Ichiro has the ability to hit .336 consistently (his major league career average to date). I dusted off my old computer skills and built RoboIchiro 2000«, which ran Ichiro through 10 simulated seasons, giving him a 33.6% chance to get a hit each at-bat:

Roboseason Final batting average
1 .344
2 .329
3 .327
4 .334
5 .326
6 .320
7 .314
8 .317
9 .341
10 .311

RoboIchiro 2000's 10-year average here is .326 -- a full 10 points below his true average, and that's with more than 7,000 simulated at-bats. Over an increasing number of seasons, that average will get closer and closer to .336, but for any individual season, there's a wide range of possible outcomes. Within individual months, it gets even weirder.

Take that .341 season. Here's RoboIchiro 2000's monthly performances:

Month Average
April .388
May .310
June .345
July .310
August .345
September-October .342

Hey, with life-like early season comparisons to Ted Williams!

During another simulated season in which he hit .331, he had months of .259 and .267 (and a .457 July). There were long stretches in which he went hitless, and had long hitting streaks.

The point is not that Ichiro hits like a computer program, even though it sometimes seems that way. It's that you still see great variations in his performance even for a player who can consistently hit almost .340.

However, because Ichiro depends so greatly on his batting average, you can see where those variations come from. So many things happen every time Ichiro puts bat to ball that there's a lot of luck involved in whether, for that particular play, he reaches first safely or not. Take an infield grounder:

Where is it hit, and how hard? Who fields it, and does he field it cleanly? How strong and accurate is his arm, and does he make a good throw to first? Does the first baseman get to the base in time (or does the pitcher get to first before Ichiro)?

Sometimes the ball's going to elude a shortstop's glove by inches, and sometimes Ichiro's going to beat the throw to first by half a step (and sometimes, the ump's going to call him out anyway). Sometimes it finds the glove, and Ichiro's thrown out easily.

There's always going to be a lot of random fluctuation in Ichiro's game, and beyond that, he's human. He's been through slumps like this before, and for the rest of his career we're going to see him go through slumps balanced with scorching-hot streaks.

Whatever the causes of his problems in the past, we've seen Ichiro pull out of them before. He's constantly tinkering with his swing, looking to correct problems or find some tiny advantage, and it's worked for him thus far. We haven't seen anything to indicate that Ichiro's in the kind of serious trouble we should be worried about, or even that his struggles are that unusual for someone who plays his kind of all-average hitting game.
A nice outsider's scouting report of the Mets in today's Seattle PI, including a great quote from Pedro:

'New Mets' withstanding intense scrutiny

Expectations heavy with Martinez, Beltran added to mix

Friday, June 17, 2005


OAKLAND, Calif. -- Optimism visits every baseball outpost each spring like a warm-weather Santa Claus in flip-flops and a loud flower shirt. Teams will play at perfect health, and everyone will perform better than career averages might suggest.

More than ever, that was Spring Training '05 for the New York Mets. The year ahead would be wildly successful, or at least quite interesting.

By that measure, they are batting .500.

It started last December, when Pedro Martinez warmed the New York winter by signing a four-year, $53 million contract. His signature, and later that of Carlos Beltran, catapulted the Mets into the realm of relevancy -- at least nationally and just maybe in their hometown, too.

Martinez has come as advertised, with an engaging intellect, sharpened opinions and superb (if not overpowering) pitches. He is changing speeds as if on I-5 -- his fastball ranged from 84 to 93 mph in his most recent start -- and has owned National League lineups in compiling a 7-1 record and 2.56 ERA.

He has kept on generally good terms with the New York media. He remains a genuine charmer when he chooses. Sometimes he's serious. Often he's not. He was, for example, asked if he is looking forward to pitching at Safeco Field tomorrow, given his history against the Mariners (13-0, 1.30).

"I prefer not to come to Seattle," he said after thinking on the question briefly. "It's really damn far."

He enjoys his new teammates -- "We have fun, but you guys (the media) can't share that" -- and speaks well of the New York fans -- "It's been flowers so far."

Still, he is like many with whom he shares clubhouse space: impressed by the talent around him, but disappointed that it has not translated into more victories.

"I was hoping to do a little better," he said.

As they begin their first series in Seattle, the Mets of Martinez, Beltran and manager Willie Randolph are 33-33. The Mets of John Franco, Al Leiter, and Art Howe were 32-34 after 66 games last season.

With the Yankees struggling to break .500, and a new Flushing ballpark on the way at last, this was the year to become the apple of the Apple's eye. Yet, the Mets have been inconsistent, much like their rival cousins from the Bronx.

New York began the road trip with a record (32-31) good for third place in three divisions. Unfortunately, the NL East is not one of them. There, the Mets are last. It is a close last -- only six games behind first-place Washington -- but last nonetheless. Judging by the October veterans signed in the offseason (Beltran, Martinez, Randolph and Doug Mientkiewicz), this was not the intent.

Lose they may, the Mets retain a certain fascination, perhaps due to their status as an on-road sociological study. Theirs is a multicultural roster, based in a multicultural city. First-year general manager Omar Minaya was baseball's first Hispanic GM, with the Expos in 2002. Randolph is the first African-American manager of a big-league team in New York.

The staff includes pitchers born in the Dominican Republic, Japan, Puerto Rico, South Korea, Venezuela, Vietnam, and Mangum, Okla. The last on the list would be Braden Looper, nephew of Mariners executive Benny Looper.

"Players are players -- it doesn't matter where they're from," Martinez said. "We have Korean, Japanese, Latino, American players. All kinds. Hopefully we'll have the same success as we have diversity."

Two hours before Wednesday's game, Ramon Castro, Victor Diaz, Roberto Hernandez, Jose Reyes, and Victor Zambrano sat at a table in the visiting clubhouse, speaking their common language. In this clubhouse, most everyone seems able to relate and communicate with his teammates. Mientkiewicz, born in Toledo, Ohio, has learned a little Spanish, too.

"It fits well," Beltran said. "New York is a city of all. We have Latin people, guys from everywhere. I am happy to be here, on a team like this one."

Four players in yesterday's New York batting order were born in Latin America. No name is bigger, though, than the one who appears on the lineup card once every five days. Martinez has much to do with increased home attendance, up by almost 6,000 fans, to an average of 34,517 per date.

"Look how Pedro Martinez is drawing Dominicans to the Mets, probably quite a few of whom were formerly much more prone to go to the Yankees," Andrei Markovits, a University of Michigan political scientist, wrote in an e-mail.

After Beltran signed, much was made of how his reserved personality would play in New York when he hit an inevitable slump. Still bothered by a strained right quadriceps that limited him to one pinch-hit appearance in an eight-game span last month, he was hitting .229 in June and .053 in his previous five games before homering yesterday.

His season numbers are hardly criminal -- .278, eight home runs, 32 RBIs -- but they fall short of expectations attached to his seven-year, $119 million contract.

"I'm not frustrated, I'm not satisfied," he said Wednesday. "I'm not feeling 100 percent. But it's OK."

He has been, depending on one's definition, slumping -- and handling it well, according to teammates. Beltran has tirelessly analyzed his at-bats on DVD and continued to be courteous with the media.

"He's quiet, at ease," veteran Cliff Floyd said. "He's not allowing the city of New York to bring him down. If anything, he should be worried about getting too lax. Sometimes being relaxed, they take it as meaning you don't care.

"But he can't change who he is, even though he might pay a price for that in this type of city. I hope he never changes because in my opinion that's the way to play the game."

At the January news conference that announced his signing, Beltran professed excitement at joining "the New Mets," words that have since spun in promotions. They grace the media guide cover and are also heard in the greeting of Shea Stadium's receptionist.

Beltran, meanwhile, continues searching for his old self in a new place of his creation. Like his teammates, he will be scrutinized this weekend at Safeco, and for the rest of the season. There is an interlocking "NY" on the crown of his cap, which means there are many eyes watching his every move.

"It is different in New York," said Mike Cameron, the former Mariner. "You have to keep your guard up. I had to change. It's just the way it is."

That is to say the intrigue comes standard, with success somewhat harder to earn.

Jun 17 2005 11:54 AM

The Mets have a bunch of players injured but they are not all on the DL, way to go Cameron, Matsui and Beltran for fighting through the pain.

Nice compliment!

Jun 17 2005 11:58 AM

Johnny Dickshot thanks for the info,I'll try and find a scouting report on both,the second article was cool

Jun 17 2005 12:24 PM

]As they begin their first series in Seattle, the Mets of Martinez, Beltran and manager Willie Randolph are 33-33. The Mets of John Franco, Al Leiter, and Art Howe were 32-34 after 66 games last season
This is disturbing.

Edgy DC
Jun 17 2005 01:07 PM

All-Time Mets Stats in Seattle

Try and stop that juggernaut.

Jun 17 2005 01:11 PM

All -Star Games?

Edgy DC
Jun 17 2005 01:15 PM


Mazzilli's poke down the line of the old Kingdome is described by Mets by the Numbers as "the cheapest home run in All-Star history."

Jun 17 2005 01:22 PM

I would have thought the cheapest one was Cal Ripkens in the 2001 All-Star game in Seattle....

I went looking for a comparable board to this place and came up with this, this board was a victim of EZ as well, Train they have a forum dedicated to your old kid Tyler Davidson.

cool board at one time..EZ sucks.

Edgy DC
Jun 17 2005 01:29 PM

Yeah, I occasionally correspond with Lisa. I should write her about this series.

Frayed Knot
Jun 17 2005 02:51 PM

Jaime Moyer - aka: The Ancient Mariner
He basically has 3 speeds: slow, slower, & slowest

Adrian Beltre - coming off his MVP year w/the Dodgers: .244/.279/.344 w/5 HRs
I wonder if anyone's blaming it on the pressures of adjusting to the harsh Seattle media?

Bret Boone - .231/.298/..372 w/5 HRs
Lack of youth, or lack of 'roids??

Yancy Street Gang
Jun 17 2005 02:59 PM

Trivia question (spun off the transactions list I posted above):

The Mets got Leslie Brea from Seattle for Butch Huskey. The Mets later included Brea in another trade. Name that transaction!

(Full disclosure: I don't remember the answer to this question myself! But I can look it up. I'm just wondering if anybody else remembers the second Leslie Brea trade.)

Jun 17 2005 03:05 PM

hint...we were in desperate need for a SS.

Frayed Knot
Jun 17 2005 03:06 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 17 2005 03:07 PM

He went in the deal for Benitez???

On edit: Right team, wrong deal -- it was in the Bordick deal.

Edgy DC
Jun 17 2005 03:06 PM

They sent him to Baltimore as part of the Bordick package. Baltimore subsequently found out he was two years older than advertised.

SI Metman
Jun 17 2005 03:26 PM

Wow, you know Seattle's offense sucks when Ryan Franklin is 2-8 with a 2.41 ERA.

Has Beltre gotten onto the interstate yet?

Jun 17 2005 03:27 PM

Nice job Irish.

I'm really hoping we kick the Mariners' ass this series. I hat them. I hate Ichiro. And my mother-in-law's bandwagoning interest in the team just intensifies my feelings.

Edgy - only show this thread to Lisa if she can take the fact that I do not think kind thoughts about her team.

Jun 17 2005 06:49 PM

Thats the problem with guys like Ichiro who have no power and can't draw a walk, they are way too dependant on singles falling in for them. guys who can draw the walk don't go through such prolonged periods of shittiness because the walks are still coming even when the singles don't fall in.
This is the problem with Jose Reyes as well...unless he can hit like Ichiro has the past 4 years he will need to draw walks to be an effective ballplayer.

Jun 18 2005 12:18 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 18 2005 12:22 AM

Saturday Trivia.

Pedro has never lost to the Mariners, here are his numbers.

13 starts, 13-0, 1.30 ERA.


What is the major-league record for most victories without a loss against one team ?( they did finally beat him)

Active leaders in this are the Astros' Roy Oswalt with a 14-0 mark against the Reds, and Martinez can tie him Saturday.

The Yankees' Randy Johnson (12-0 against the Cubs) and Kansas City's JosÚ Lima (10-0 against the Brewers

Edgy DC
Jun 18 2005 12:19 AM

Seemed like Moyer just gave Piazza a lot of pitches he could hit.

Edgy DC
Jun 18 2005 12:23 AM

Is Cameron available to pinch hit here?

Edgy DC
Jun 18 2005 12:33 AM

Marlon Anderson is tossed after getting rung up on two highly dubious calls.

Frayed Knot
Jun 18 2005 12:37 AM

Tongiht's AFLAC quiz:
How long will it take Edgy to realize he's posting in the wrong thread?

Edgy DC
Jun 18 2005 01:14 AM

If you have 1:14 AM, you win!