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Scoring Question

Edgy DC
Sep 26 2005 09:18 AM

A player gets hit by ball four. How is that scored?

Yancy Street Gang
Sep 26 2005 09:24 AM

I think it's an HBP.

Frayed Knot
Sep 26 2005 09:33 AM

Agreed.

Edgy DC
Sep 26 2005 09:56 AM

I guess so, if only technically because the pitch wouln't be called ball four until it reaches the catcher. If the ump notices the batsman hit before then, he'll call that, and the ball/strike call becomes a moot point.

Justice demands that batters get two bases in such an instance.

metirish
Sep 26 2005 10:00 AM

From the rule book...

]BASES ON BALLS
10.16
(a) A base on balls shall be scored whenever a batter is awarded first base because of four balls having been pitched outside the strike zone, but when the fourth such ball touches the batter it shall be scored as a "hit batter." (See 10.18 (h) for procedure when more than one pitcher is involved in giving a base on balls: Also see 10.17 (b) relative to substitute batter who receives base on balls.) (b) Intentional base on balls shall be scored when the pitcher makes no attempt to throw the last pitch to the batter into the strike zone but purposely throws the ball wide to the catcher outside the catcher's box. (1) If a batter awarded a base on balls is called out for refusing to advance to first base, do not credit the base on balls. Charge a time at bat.



http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

Yancy Street Gang
Sep 26 2005 10:10 AM

Is the ball considered dead after it hits the batter, or is it still in play?

For example, if ball four is a wild pitch, and first base is unoccupied, a runner on second can advance to third at his own risk. Is the same true if a pitch bounces off the batter's helmet and goes back to the backstop?

I can't recall if I've ever seen that happen.

Frayed Knot
Sep 26 2005 10:12 AM

Here's a scoring call for y'all - occured in yesterday's softball game:

Bases loaded, 0 outs.
Pop-up near the 3rd base bag, ump signals/calls for the IF Fly rule.
My 3rd baseman lets the ball drop hoping to entice one or more runners into leaving their bases
Ball lands fair between 3rd base and the mound ... but then bounces foul.

What's your call?


All runners stayed put btw.

Frayed Knot
Sep 26 2005 10:13 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote:
Is the ball considered dead after it hits the batter, or is it still in play?


HBP is always a dead ball.

Yancy Street Gang
Sep 26 2005 10:15 AM

That's what I thought.

So the difference between a BB and a HBP is more than how to list it in the box score. It can actually affect what occurs on the field.

MFS62
Sep 26 2005 10:33 AM

Here's a true softball story from the playbook of the "sneaky bastard, let's bend the rules" folks.
The game was played under the following league rules:
Rule 1) There is no such thing as a balk in softball
Rule 2) a runner leaving the base before the ball leaves the pitcher's hand is out.

Situation; bases loaded, no outs

The play: The pitcher goes into the windup, arm moves forward and the pitcher holds onto the ball.

The outcome: Every runner took off, anticipating that the ball would be released. The pitcher held up the ball to show the umpires, who had no other choice but to call all three runners out. TRIPLE PLAY! (I guess scored 1-1-1)

After a lot of arguing and name calling ("cheater, cheater") the umpires repeated their decision that it was indeed a triple play.

But that's the kind of thing you can only do once. :)
After that, they usually change the league rules on ya'.

Later

Yancy Street Gang
Sep 26 2005 10:36 AM

Fiendishly clever.

metirish
Sep 26 2005 10:38 AM

Frayed Knot, in your game wouldn't that ball be called Foul?

Frayed Knot
Sep 26 2005 11:03 AM

="metirish"]Frayed Knot, in your game wouldn't that ball be called Foul?


Yes.
An Infield Fly isn't an infield fly unless it's fair - think about it, the only reason for the rule is so the defense can't gain an unfair advantage over the offense (by intentionally dropping the ball and getting a DP) but that advantage doesn't exist on a foul. The proper call by the ump is; "Infield Fly ... IF FAIR" and then he'd simply call the ball that spun foul as 'strike 1' (or strike whatever). The confusing part is that the ball initially landed fair and - because of this - the ump made his 'IFR' call too soon and then stuck with it.
My guys benefitted but it suxx when the umps don't know the rules.



MFS'62: I know there are no balks in softball but at the same time there are rules which require that the pitcher maintain a continuous delivery w/o stops & starts or herky-jerky dance-steps in between. Rules differ between leagues (since the runners can move in your example this sounds like a fast-pitch or modified pitch league) but in my mind this should have been a 'no-pitch' call and the runners returned to their bases.

Edgy DC
Sep 26 2005 12:01 PM

]So the difference between a BB and a HBP is more than how to list it in the box score. It can actually affect what occurs on the field.


This counts big time in Met history, as Mookie Wilson dancing away from a ball heading at his lower legs allowed the tying run to score on a wild pitch, while a a hit batsman would have merely put Mookie on and advanced winning-run Ray Knight to second, while leaving the game up to the next guy (Howard Johnson).

Did they have a junky lefty available to face Johnson?