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Starting a new movement

Edgy DC
Sep 21 2005 07:40 AM

Hey, Willie, show us some of Jacobs behind the plate.

I want to see as much of Piazza as possible down the stretch, sure, but nine innnings of Jacobs down the stretch --- give him DiFelice's and basketball-head's innings --- would be appreciated.

Now get behind me, then help the movement bleed onto other boards, and by six o'clock tonight the FAN lines will be lit by Jacobs backstop supporters.

(By the way, I got the Marlins game feed last night. Their booth team couldn't get enough of how self-defeatingly doltish WFAN callers came across as. They particularly liked the one who called to remark: "Heilman is doing really well. We've got to trade him for somebody who can help us.")

Elster88
Sep 21 2005 07:42 AM

I guess it must be a nice change from having no interest whatsoever in baseball, which I think is the norm in Florida.
_____________________________
This post had the designation 149) Willie Mays

ScarletKnight41
Sep 21 2005 07:53 AM

Leave Jake Monster at first. He's not an impressive defensive catcher.

Edgy DC
Sep 21 2005 08:03 AM

You can't be in the movement.

smg58
Sep 21 2005 08:13 AM

He may not be, but is he a major liability or simply not impressive? That difference matters if he's a better hitter than any catcher we could sign or deal for, but not a better hitter than an available first baseman.

Yes, I know, you'd have to speculate about how good a hitter Jacobs really is, but we'd be speculating just as much about somebody like Shoppach. And while Ramon Hernandez has hit better since he came off the DL, he's missed significant parts of the last two seasons, and that makes signing him a big risk. I've got no problem with examining the in-house options.

heep
Sep 21 2005 08:27 AM

Jacobs is defintely worth considering to catch in 2006, in light of the slim options out there. Again, its a wild proposal, but the Mets could do better than Konerko, if the Rockies are willing to part with their franchise player.

I would love to see Jacobs catch, unless of course he is a liablity which I cannot foresee. I wonder why they moved him to first to begin with.

ScarletKnight41
Sep 21 2005 09:07 AM

They moved him to first because he isn't much of a catcher.

sharpie
Sep 21 2005 09:08 AM

Have you seen him catch? I haven't.

ScarletKnight41
Sep 21 2005 10:00 AM

I've seen him in Trenton when he was with Binghamton. I have to discuss this with D-Dad to make sure I'm not confusing him with Justin Huber (who was an absolute liability behind the plate).

OE - here's D-Dad's memory of Jake as a catcher -

] Jacobs was decent as a catcher. Not great blocking balls, but a decent arm. I would not want him to be my every day catcher, but as an emergency 3rd catcher (or even 2nd catcher) he's probably adequate defensively

Edgy DC
Sep 21 2005 10:08 AM

So he could be Mackey Sasser, and that's not bad in summary. But, if Piazza sits at all, I'd like to see Jacobs before the season is out, rather than Castro or DiFelice.

Centerfield
Sep 21 2005 11:42 AM

Yup. Basically, this movement is aimed at giving us all the chance to see what D-Dad has already.

Put Jacobs behind the plate NOW!!!!

Frayed Knot
Sep 21 2005 12:53 PM

I think Willie's def from the 'I want a catch-n-throw' guy behind there and isn't keen on having guys like Jacobs as a top option. He wasn't considered a good defensive guy to start with and that was before he spent almost no time behind the plate for most of 2 years (missed most of '04 and played 1st & DH most of '05).
In other words ... this movement is doomed to failure.

I'm not even sure if he'll get a true crack in the spring. What would be best is if he can show that he'll hit enough to play 1st on at least a platoon basis and be the 3rd option for backstop. 2 catchers is often too few because it limits the PH-ing options, 3 is too many. 2-1/2 could be just right if he could imitate the good version of Bono.

Valadius
Sep 21 2005 12:56 PM

Could we see Roberto Hernandez at catcher? All he wants to do before he retires is throw out a baserunner.

Edgy DC
Sep 21 2005 01:02 PM

See him. I want to see him.

I don't want to park him there. I don't want them to refuse to sign Roger Breshanan because of the presence of Mike Jacobs. I want it established before the end of the seasonthat he is or isn't capable of stopping the ball from hitting the umpire.

I ask for so little. Less than a fleasworth of indulgence. Mark but this flea, and mark in this how little that which thou deniest me is.

Rotblatt
Sep 21 2005 01:24 PM

I'm in. Let's see how he looks behind the plate.

He wasn't supposed to be all that at first base either, but has seemed pretty solid there so far.

If he sucks, no harm done. If he's passable, maybe we can use Jake to spell our regular catcher next year and won't have to waste a roster spot on a backup catcher. If he's good, we'll have one less hole to fill in the offseason. Jake might not provide enough offense at first, but he'd certainly do the job at catcher, IMO.

Play Jake at catcher NOW!

SI Metman
Sep 21 2005 01:37 PM

I'd probably rather see Jake behind the plate. I think penciling him as the starting first baseman in '06 will be repeating the mistake they made in 2004 by going with the Bono/Piazza platoon.

I can live with a Piazza/Jake catching platoon and have a slugging first baseman like Konerko (or Delgado if Florida decides they don't want to pay him).

Elster88
Sep 21 2005 02:06 PM

I dunno, I think Jacobs > Phillips. I think he can be a masher. But putting him at first and watching is more towards playing for the future. It's hard to be patient when 2/5 of your rotation is Pedro and Glavine.
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This post had the designation 148) George Stone

Nymr83
Sep 21 2005 02:39 PM

i dont think he belongs there longterm, but since piazza aint coming back and we know exactloy what castro will give us i seee no downside to the idea of giving jacobs a shot back there.

Vic Sage
Sep 21 2005 03:47 PM

Part of why the 86 mets were the 86 mets is because Davey Johnson had the balls to push guys as far on the defensive spectrum as he could get away with, in order to get bats in the lineup.

Any manager who would play Hojo and Kevin Mitchell at SS, and play Backman as often as possible, and could then produce a season like 86 clearly understands the relative values of fielding and offense.

If Jacobs can hit .280 with 20hrs, he'd be a mediocre 1bman but an all-star catcher. So, i'm all over the "play jacobs behind the plate" movement. If he can (as Edgy put it so well) keep the ball from hitting the umpire... hell, i'd start him next year, with castro as HIS backup, and go about finding a 1bman who can truly mash.

If he really sucks behind the plate, then he can still be a backup at 2 positions, with his bat. I'd still want to see if we could get a masher at 1b, and i don't trust him to be that guy.

MFS62
Sep 21 2005 04:30 PM

I'm in for giving him a try behind the dish.
But I'd also like to see Roberto get his chance in one game, too.

Later

Iubitul
Sep 21 2005 05:16 PM

Ok - Ed Coleman reads the Pool. In his interview with Willie on the pre-game show, Ed asked him if he wanted to see what Jacobs looked like behind the plate this year.

Randolph said that Jacobs had a sore arm this year, but also said that he wanted to put him behind the plate to see how he would do.

Edgy DC
Sep 21 2005 05:28 PM

Way to go, EC.

Zvon
Sep 21 2005 05:50 PM

why not?
Im sure Piazza will be given an off day over the remainder of the season.
Sure, lets see Jacobs bearing the tools of ingnorance.(<is that what they call em?)

I would think Willies logic might be he dont want to get Jacobs hurt unecessarily. He hasnt played there for a while, I believe.

Last day of the season,.....he can start behind the plate....relief pitcher Hernandez can come in for the 6th,...and then Piazza for the 7th and 8th, so we can all wave G'bye to him.****sob*

(has anyone else read or heard about Piazza saying he is willing to stay on with the Mets next season and play a lesser role?)

Edgy DC
Sep 21 2005 06:11 PM

He has been openly non-committal. I think he'd be very happy to listen to what the Mets have to say, while ready hear them say, "Thanks, but we have nothing to offer you."

Frayed Knot
Sep 21 2005 08:56 PM

What I thought I heard Willie say to EC prior to the game (I tuned in in the middle of the chat) was that while they haven't given up on Jacobs behind the plate it's not likely to happen now on account of the arm thing, and because he hasn't caught lately, and because he hasn't caught this batch of guys at all.
He did add that they expect Jacobs to play winter ball where he'll both catch and play 1st and then they'll get a good look at him next Spring.

Hey, I'm all for sticking him behind the plate if he looks even halfway decent. I just don't think it'll happen in the next week and I'm of the opinion that I don't think they're apt to go that route with a guy who'll turn 25 next year and wasn't that good to begin with even before he took nearly 2 years off from the position.
2nd catcher would be a bonus, 3rd is more likely.

seawolf17
Sep 22 2005 04:15 AM

Willie said the same thing on M&MD yesterday at 5:00 also. He said we'll see Jacobs behind the plate "for a game or two."

Elster88
Sep 22 2005 06:45 AM

Reyes SS
Beltran CF
Wright 3B
Konerko 1B
Floyd LF
Cameron RF
Jacobs/Piazza C
Matsui 2B

I'd rather sub Manny for Cliffy and switch him and Konerko in the order, but I think most people would rather have Milledge in the organization than Manny.
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This post had the designation 148) George Stone

Rotblatt
Sep 22 2005 09:06 AM

I still think we can get Manny for far less than Milledge. Here are my reasons:

1. Their rotation lacks an ace, is inconsistent, 3/5 of it is a big injury risk, and they have little depth, since Miller will miss 2006.
2. Their bullpen sucks and even if Foulke returns to form & Hansen is the next Street in 2006, they'll need help.
3. Re-signing Damon will be expensive and they have no big contracts coming off the books.
4. They will have a hole at 1st unless they re-sign one of Miller (underperfoming), Olerud (old) or Petagine (an offensive unknown with a bad glove).
5. They will have a hole at 2B unless they re-sign Garrafino or use Pedroia, a rookie.
6. They will have a hole at 3B unless they resign Mueller or commit to Youkilis.
7. They need a fourth outfielder or a corner OF who can play center to back up Damon
8. It will be a weak FA market, with Burnett & Konerko as the likely biggest names. They will be expensive.
9. IF the Sox don't make the playoffs this year, the pressure will be on to shore up SP & the pen.
10. We are likely the only team willing to eat Manny's contract.

Trading Manny would free up enough money to outbid everyone for the RP & 1B of their choice. The difference between a Floyd or Cameron & a Manny is substantial, but the real question is if, given their holes:

Manny ($20M) + Shoppach > Floyd ($6.5M) + Trachsel ($2.5M) + Konerko ($10M?) + Ryan ($8M?)

They add ~$7M in the short term but save in the long run as Floyd & Trachs come off the books in 2007. They'd downgrade at left, but Konerko is a significant upgrade at 1B, Ryan is a significant upgrade in the pen, and at the very least, Trachsel adds much-needed depth to their rotation and allows them to move Arroyo back to the pen. With Tek locked up, they have no use for Shoppach except as a trading chip--and not even a particularly valuable one, at that.

The Sox were over a barrell at the trading deadline this year, and weren't willing to pay the price to upgrade. Let's see what happens if the Sox miss the playoffs and are faced with a similar choice.

Benjamin Grimm
Sep 22 2005 09:22 AM

I don't even want to think about the Sox missing the playoffs.

smg58
Sep 22 2005 09:26 AM

Neither do I. Because that would mean the Yankees making it.

Giant Squidlike Creature
Nov 10 2005 11:09 AM

This appears to be the original "Let Jacobs catch" thread.

Edgy DC
Nov 10 2005 11:14 AM

How did it turn into a Manny-for-Milledge thread?

MFS62
Nov 10 2005 11:20 AM

Edgy DC wrote:
I don't want them to refuse to sign Roger Breshanan because of the presence of Mike Jacobs.


If for no other reason, the mention of Roger Bresnahan makes this thread worthy of archival status.

Edgy, you remember him? I didn't think you were that old? :)

Later

smg58
Nov 10 2005 07:11 PM

I forgot about this thread. So the organization has at least some interest in seeing how Jacobs cuts it as a catcher. Good. Keep the options open.

Edgy DC
Nov 10 2005 07:44 PM

]Edgy, you remember him?


I read.

MFS62
Nov 11 2005 07:17 AM

Edgy DC wrote:
]Edgy, you remember him?


I read.


And I was joking. But I couldn't let a Roger Bresnahan reference just hang out there without comment. Impressive.

Later

Benjamin Grimm
Nov 11 2005 07:20 AM



Roger Bresnahan

Roger Philip Bresnahan
Born: June 11, 1879, Toledo, Ohio
Died: December 4, 1944, Toledo, Ohio
Bats: right
Throws: right
Played for: Washington Senators (NL), Chicago Orphans, Baltimore Orioles, New York Giants, St. Louis Cardinals , Chicago Cubs
Elected to Hall of Fame by Committee on Baseball Veterans: 1945

Edgy DC
Nov 11 2005 07:35 AM

Of course, you were joking.

Interesting that, with all the Irish-born players of that era, the guy nicknamed "The Duke of Tralee" was born and died in Toledo, Ohio. He probably never saw Ireland, much less Trallee.

He died in 1944 and was added to the Hall of Fame roster by the Veterans Committee the next year. Dying as a career move is a risky venture. It's a good publicity stunt, but it's your last one. If it doesn't get you in the Hall the next year, you'll never get in.

Pear-shaped chest protectors make you look fat.