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The fucking guy GOT HURT!

Bret Sabermetric
Aug 29 2005 10:57 AM

Dear Willie,

You may have overlooked something crucial in this whole Trachsel disaster, to wit: the fucking guy got hurt. He was a regular rotation starter-- as it happened, the Mets' best and most consistent rotation starter-- and he got hurt. He got injured. His right arm became out of commission. You might have read about this, it was in all the papers.

Normally, in baseball as it is practiced on this planet, when a man gets hurt, he is given his job back, provisionally, when he returns to fuill health. If another has assumed his position, and played with exceptional skill, (that is, skill greater than that which the injured player has displayed) then you would be in a tough situation, but in the present case, you have Pedro and you have Trax, both of whom have given you nothing but excellent pitching over the course of their Met careers, and then you have everyone else.

What you do is look at "everyone else" and decide which of these pitchers we wish to swallow the poison pill. If you cannot decide which of the pitchers you would like to swallow the pill, then please swallow it yourself, and the problem will be someone else's to resolve.

Thank you.

KC
Aug 29 2005 01:39 PM

>>>he got hurt. He got injured. His right arm became out of commission. You might have read about this, it was in all the papers.<<<

I thought he had back surgery?

Bret Sabermetric
Aug 29 2005 01:42 PM

Whatever. I was on a roll, who remembers details?

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 29 2005 04:01 PM

I think they're trying to swap outTraschel now: Rumors of a deal to Boston for Millar or Olerud (?), or elsewhere for some relief help, are all over the Internet today.

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 29 2005 04:20 PM

And what is a guy with "Sabermetric" in his name and a youth agenda doing bemoaning Steve Trachsel? God love his results but given his periferals and his age (he'll be 35 next season) he's basically the poster boy for sabermetric prophecies of doom.

smg58
Aug 29 2005 06:00 PM

Haven't they heard? The Mets don't need a first baseman!

I might say yes to Kelly Shoppach, though.

Bret Sabermetric
Aug 29 2005 06:01 PM

Funny--before I saw your last post, I was going to add that, as much as I like Trax's personality and pitching style, it would be a good move to unload him now that the Mets have put themselves in this particular bind of having too much starting pitching, and firm commitments to several mediocre pitchers. It would be funny if they shitcanned Trax and he went on a tear.

cooby
Aug 29 2005 06:26 PM

This thread title reminds me of one of those sentences the English teacher used to write on the board so that you could diagram it and then rearrange all the words to make a new sentence and diagram it again.

ABG
Aug 29 2005 06:29 PM

cooby wrote:
This thread title reminds me of one of those sentences the English teacher used to write on the board so that you could diagram it and then rearrange all the words to make a new sentence and diagram it again.

You must've had some bad-ass english teachers Coob.

Edgy DC
Aug 29 2005 07:52 PM

This may be our new cooby thread.

The fucking guy got hurt!

The guy fucking got hurt!

The guy got hurt fucking!

Fucking got the guy hurt!

Hurt, the guy got fucking!

cooby
Aug 29 2005 08:00 PM

There ya go, Miss Dickey would be proud

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 29 2005 08:06 PM

You forgot:

Got hurt fucking the guy!

Rotblatt
Aug 29 2005 08:09 PM

Man, SoSH has no love for Trachsel. Which is ignorant, since his 3.73 ERA over the last three years is over a half run better than their best starter this year, Tim Wakefield.

You'd think they'd be, you know, grateful for getting a new ace. :lol:

I think the deal sucks, personally. He's not sexy, but Trachs is a damn fine pitcher in a market where there are NO decent pitchers available.

This deal better be Shoppach and Olerud for Trachs. Olerud alone--much as I like him---is in no way, shape or form worth Trachsel at this stage of his career.

Hell, we have the Sox over a barrell here. Curt's no guarntee to be even average the rest of the season, much less an ace, Clement, Wakefield & Arroyo have been incredibly inconsistent, Wells is unreliable except against crappy teams, and Paplebon's a pup. And that's the rotation they're taking into the playoffs unless we help decide to help them out.

We should ask for Shoppach AND Hanley Ramirez.

We don't need to do a deal; they do. Nail them to the wall, Omar.

Rotblatt
Aug 29 2005 08:41 PM

Just to bolster my case against acquiring Olerud for Trachsel:

Olerud (heading into tonight's game)
.296 AVG/.333 OBP/.435 SLG/.769 OPS

Mientkiewicz
.247 AVG/.332 OBP/.428 SLG/.760 OPS

Olerud's lost a step defensively and would likely be a downgrade from Mientkiewicz, so is gaining .009 OPS points REALLY worth giving up Steve Trachsel and sacrificing a bit of defense?

If we do this, it'll be another case of giving Willie someone he's comfortable using, which is idiotic and wasteful.

I'm crabby tonight. I guess this is what happens when the Mets don't play . . .

Johnny Dickshot
Aug 29 2005 08:52 PM

I highly doubt they trade him for Olerud.

metirish
Aug 29 2005 09:06 PM

From the New York Times..

]Trachsel Is Said to Turn Up on Red Sox' Radar

By BEN SHPIGEL
Published: August 30, 2005
Teams around baseball have noticed the Mets' surplus of starting pitching, and one in particular - the Boston Red Sox - has contacted the Mets about the availability of Steve Trachsel.

Trachsel was demoted to the bullpen Sunday despite having allowed two hits in eight scoreless innings Friday in his first appearance of the 2005 season.


A major league executive with knowledge of the discussions between the Mets and the Red Sox said that no deal seemed imminent, although the two teams might talk again. If the Red Sox were to acquire Trachsel, they would presumably want to do so by midnight Wednesday, because any player acquired after that point would not be eligible for the postseason. And if Trachsel has previously cleared waivers, no team, like the Yankees, could move to block the trade by claiming Trachsel before a deal is made.

The executive who acknowledged the discussions between the two teams said he did not want to be named because he felt doing so might jeopardize any chances, slim as they might be, for a deal. Although a trade for Trachsel makes sense for the Red Sox, whose pitching is in disarray, it is not clear what players Boston could afford to offer the Mets who would be of immediate help in their attempt to win a heated National League wild-card race.

Like many teams, the Mets could use some bullpen help, but the Red Sox bullpen is not in particularly good shape, either. The Mets could also stand to upgrade at catcher, first base and second base, areas of depth in the Boston farm system, but the Red Sox may not want to trade a solid prospect for what could be merely a stopgap acquisition. Nor is it clear that the Mets would want to surrender Trachsel now for someone who could not help them for the remainder of this season.

The Red Sox may be willing to part with the backup third baseman Kevin Youkilis, who is 26 and does have potential as a major league hitter, but the Mets already have a rising star at third base in David Wright.

It is not unusual for a contender, like the Red Sox, to try to make a deal weeks after the July 31 trading deadline. It is possible that other teams vying for the postseason may contact the Mets, too.

But the Mets may have already concluded that it does not make sense to trade Trachsel, barring an overwhelming offer, because he provides pitching depth for their postseason push - an asset few other teams have - and could command higher trade value in the off-season. The 34-year-old Trachsel has a $2.5 million option for the 2006 season, which makes him an attractive, low-cost option for many teams. Trachsel's return to action on Friday came five months after he had back surgery. Two days later, on Sunday, he was stunned to learn that he was being bumped right back out of the overcrowded Mets rotation for the weekend series in Florida, although it is possible that he could be back in the rotation next week with another Mets starter - perhaps Victor Zambrano - being asked to take a rest. Trachsel did say Sunday that neither he nor his agents, Sam and Seth Levinson, had asked for a trade.

As the Mets head into a key part of their schedule, beginning with a three-game series tonight at Shea Stadium against Philadelphia, the current leader in the wild-card race, their success could hinge on how well Manager Willie Randolph manipulates six bona fide starting pitchers and five available slots - assuming Trachsel remains a Met.

That surplus could prove an advantage for the Mets, if Randolph uses his extra starter to manipulate matchups against other teams and possibly give all of his starters extra rest as the season grinds to a conclusion. On the other hand, an extra starter has the potential to create controversy and distraction, as it did on Sunday when Trachsel learned he was being bumped.

Randolph seems reluctant to go with a steady six-man rotation because it would reduce how often Pedro Martínez and Tom Glavine pitch. But in the final month of the season, he may move other starters in and out, depending on the matchup.

For instance, Zambrano, whose inconsistency appeared to make him the front-runner to move to the bullpen once Trachsel returned, will start Friday at Florida, where he is 2-0 with an 0.82 earned run average in three starts at Dolphins Stadium. Trachsel is 4-3 in Florida but has not won there since April 1999.

If nothing else, Trachsel's demotion, however temporary, continues a season-long trend for the Mets, who have bumped other starters from their crowded rotation despite standout performances.

On April 15, Aaron Heilman pitched a one-hit complete-game shutout against Florida. Ten days later, he allowed two hits over seven innings against Atlanta, but by mid-May he was out of the rotation and in the bullpen, with a largely undefined role.

On May 4, Jae Seo allowed one hit and struck out eight over seven innings against Philadelphia. But he was sent to Class AAA Norfolk immediately afterward because Benson was coming off the disabled list. Now Seo is back, and pitching superbly. Maybe Trachsel will be back soon, too - if he is not traded.

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Frayed Knot
Aug 29 2005 09:09 PM

]I highly doubt they trade him for Olerud.


I don't think so either but they're certainly not getting 2 higher-level prospects a la Stoppach and (especially) Hanley Ramirez for 5 weeks of Steve Trachsel.

Trax is in a bit of a weird situation as far as a trade goes. The Mets hold an '06 option which isn't for very much money - something like $2.5mil - making it worthwhile to keep him and maybe deal him over the winter. But it's also got a bunch of complicated incentives which could push it higher AND ... he becomes a 10/5 guy this winter which would restrict the kind of deals you could make.

metirish
Aug 29 2005 09:15 PM

Now that we are in full Traschel rumor mode the chatter on the FAN is Trax for Renteria, no idea how that would work...just reporting what I heard.

Edgy DC
Aug 29 2005 09:44 PM

So I guess the implication is that you only have to clear waivers once to be traded after the deadline. Those crafty Mets may have activated him and immediately put him on revocable waivers, allowing him to clear before his great start and while his health was still a question mark.

Bret Sabermetric
Aug 30 2005 03:56 AM

That would be a canny move them crafty Mets did.

But is there a downside to putting Trax on revocable waivers as soon as he got off the DL? In other words, was it not so much a smart move as the ONLY move to make in that situation (i.e., the avoidance of a colossally-dumb move NOT to place him on revocable waivers)?

Are we reduced to praising the Mets every time they DON'T shoot themselves in the foot? I didn't shoot myself in the foot this morning, and I've been up for two whole hours already. Yippiee for me!!!

TheOldMole
Aug 30 2005 06:41 AM

Edgy/JD --

That totally cracked me up.

Frayed Knot
Aug 30 2005 07:25 AM

"So I guess the implication is that you only have to clear waivers once to be traded after the deadline."

Once within each 'waiver period' yes.
If your guy is claimed and then you pull him back and try to get him through a second time in the same period then any claim becomes irrevocable.

The Mets put Trax on waivers in advance for the same reason most of the league is put on waivers quickly after the period starts, so that if a trade offer does come up you don't have to wait 72 hours and hold your breath to see if you can make the deal you just agreed to. "Pre-cleared" players get rid of that annoying hang-up.

Elster88
Aug 30 2005 07:49 AM

Let's keep him and get more for him in the offseason, if possible.

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This post was made under the posting designation 170) Barry Lyons